Upgrading Computer Memory (DDR2-667)
in [Hardware]
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From: m on 20 Mar 2006 16:09 Greetings! I have recently purchased a new Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computer. The model name is SCALEO P-011. The price-to-feature ratio was very impressive, and the my previous experience with this brand has been nothing less than excellent. However, one area where this PC is lacking is memory. It has only 512MB's of memory, and I would need at least 1GB. Unfortunately, I'm very confused about what type of memory I should acquire. The motherborad specification states the following: * 4 DDRII DIMM memory slots (supports up to 4GB memory) * Supports dual channel DDR II 667/533/400 DIMM * Supports 1.8V DDR II DIMM All was fine so far. I figured I should get myself a DDR2-667 1GB memory kit. But when I went onling shopping for memory kits, I found matters a little bit confusing. For example, Newegg.com has two subcategories for DDR2-667 memory: PC5300, and PC5400. Furthermore, all the gold, extreme, and whatever special edition memory kits are more abundant in different categories. Like DDR2-800 or somesuch. So, my questions are: 1. What's the difference between PC5300 and PC5400 DDR2 memory? 2. With the motherboard specifications I gave above, would the motherboard be able to run memory modules of higer clock rates? For example, DDR2-675, DDR2-800, etc. 3. Could anyone suggest a decent memory kit what would work on my configuration, and preferablly offered by Amazon.com? Many thanks in advance. -M
From: someone on 20 Mar 2006 16:20 <m(a)abdulfatah.net> wrote in message news:1142888958.204090.111590(a)j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Greetings! > > I have recently purchased a new Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computer. The > model name is SCALEO P-011. The price-to-feature ratio was very > impressive, and the my previous experience with this brand has been > nothing less than excellent. > > However, one area where this PC is lacking is memory. It has only > 512MB's of memory, and I would need at least 1GB. Unfortunately, I'm > very confused about what type of memory I should acquire. The > motherborad specification states the following: > * 4 DDRII DIMM memory slots (supports up to 4GB memory) > * Supports dual channel DDR II 667/533/400 DIMM > * Supports 1.8V DDR II DIMM > > All was fine so far. I figured I should get myself a DDR2-667 1GB > memory kit. But when I went onling shopping for memory kits, I found > matters a little bit confusing. For example, Newegg.com has two > subcategories for DDR2-667 memory: PC5300, and PC5400. Furthermore, all > the gold, extreme, and whatever special edition memory kits are more > abundant in different categories. Like DDR2-800 or somesuch. > > So, my questions are: > 1. What's the difference between PC5300 and PC5400 DDR2 memory? > 2. With the motherboard specifications I gave above, would the > motherboard be able to run memory modules of higer clock rates? For > example, DDR2-675, DDR2-800, etc. > 3. Could anyone suggest a decent memory kit what would work on my > configuration, and preferablly offered by Amazon.com? > go to www.crucial.com Type in the computer details. you`ll be told what memory you can use. Crucial are the experts.
From: Paul on 20 Mar 2006 21:11 In article <i0FTf.7205$Mx1.4935(a)newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, "someone" <Binary(a)Fog.com> wrote: > <m(a)abdulfatah.net> wrote in message > news:1142888958.204090.111590(a)j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Greetings! > > > > I have recently purchased a new Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computer. The > > model name is SCALEO P-011. The price-to-feature ratio was very > > impressive, and the my previous experience with this brand has been > > nothing less than excellent. > > > > However, one area where this PC is lacking is memory. It has only > > 512MB's of memory, and I would need at least 1GB. Unfortunately, I'm > > very confused about what type of memory I should acquire. The > > motherborad specification states the following: > > * 4 DDRII DIMM memory slots (supports up to 4GB memory) > > * Supports dual channel DDR II 667/533/400 DIMM > > * Supports 1.8V DDR II DIMM > > > > All was fine so far. I figured I should get myself a DDR2-667 1GB > > memory kit. But when I went onling shopping for memory kits, I found > > matters a little bit confusing. For example, Newegg.com has two > > subcategories for DDR2-667 memory: PC5300, and PC5400. Furthermore, all > > the gold, extreme, and whatever special edition memory kits are more > > abundant in different categories. Like DDR2-800 or somesuch. > > > > So, my questions are: > > 1. What's the difference between PC5300 and PC5400 DDR2 memory? > > 2. With the motherboard specifications I gave above, would the > > motherboard be able to run memory modules of higer clock rates? For > > example, DDR2-675, DDR2-800, etc. > > 3. Could anyone suggest a decent memory kit what would work on my > > configuration, and preferablly offered by Amazon.com? > > > go to www.crucial.com > Type in the computer details. you`ll be told what memory you can use. > Crucial are the experts. Page 74, Table 40, lists the JEDEC approved speed grades (2MB doc): http://www.jedec.org/download/search/JESD79-2B.pdf DDR2-800 CL-tRCD-tRP = 4-4-4, 5-5-5, 6-6-6 DDR2-667 = 4-4-4, 5-5-5 DDR2-533 = 3-3-3, 4-4-4 DDR2-400 = 3-3-3, 4-4-4 There is no 675, so PC5300 versus PC5400 is "marketing". It has a bit to do with "666" being the biblical "mark of the beast", and 667 not being "different enough" from 666 for some people's tastes. That would be my guess as to why there is a PC5400 RAM. The lower the CL-tRCD-tRP in the above table, the faster the memory. But we are talking small improvements here, and there is probably no value in falling for the hype. What combinations will work, really depends a lot on the BIOS and the chipset. Some chipsets have the odd issue, like one that won't run 4-4-4 at DDR2-667, and the BIOS makes it fall back to DDR2-533. Your user manual is the first place to look, for advice or restrictions on memory speed or timing. I cannot find any info on your motherboard, so if you have a URL for the user manual, or can tell us the chipset used, that would help. Also, I don't understand what you are shopping for. You have 512MB of memory, which could be 2x256MB or 1x512MB. Are you trying to find another 512MB module, so you have 2x512MB to work with ? Or, are you buying 2x512MB to replace whatever RAM is already in the machine. I take it you are aiming for a dual channel configuration. If you are trying to match the memory, more info about the memory itself would be needed. CPUZ can dump some info about your hardware (cpuid.com) and Everest Home Edition can tell you some things as well. So, knowing the initial configuration, and its characteristics, may play a part in the purchase decision. CPUZ can dump the SPD information stored in the existing DIMM's SPD chip, for example. (AFAIK, this is the last free version of Everest...) http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181 Paul
From: m on 21 Mar 2006 14:38 Paul, Thanks for your very valuable input. I opened the case and took a look at the motherboard, and found it labeled as "Gigabyte GA-8I945PE." I then searched Gigabyte's website but they didn't have it listed anywhere. My guess is that it's rebranded for use by Fujistu-Siemens. The closest match I found was the GA-8I945P Pro motherboard. I also failed to find an online version of the user's manual, but here's the specs it had on the chipset and BIOS: * Northbridge: Intel 945P Express chipset * Southbridge: Intel ICH7 * Licensed AWARD BIOS, no further information given. I apologize for being unclear on my exact requirements. As bought, the PC has 512MB's in a 2x256MB configuration. I wish to replace the existing memory with 1GB in 2x512MB configuration, so that I would have room to upgrade to 2GB's in the future if needed. By the way, I found it very funny that 666 would be considered a bad operating frequency from a marketing point of view. Thanks for that interesting bit of trivia :)
From: Paul on 22 Mar 2006 00:48
In article <1142969910.012528.65750(a)z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, m(a)abdulfatah.net wrote: > Paul, > > Thanks for your very valuable input. > > I opened the case and took a look at the motherboard, and found it > labeled as "Gigabyte GA-8I945PE." I then searched Gigabyte's website > but they didn't have it listed anywhere. My guess is that it's > rebranded for use by Fujistu-Siemens. The closest match I found was the > GA-8I945P Pro motherboard. > > I also failed to find an online version of the user's manual, but > here's the specs it had on the chipset and BIOS: > * Northbridge: Intel 945P Express chipset > * Southbridge: Intel ICH7 > * Licensed AWARD BIOS, no further information given. > > I apologize for being unclear on my exact requirements. As bought, the > PC has 512MB's in a 2x256MB configuration. I wish to replace the > existing memory with 1GB in 2x512MB configuration, so that I would have > room to upgrade to 2GB's in the future if needed. > > By the way, I found it very funny that 666 would be considered a bad > operating frequency from a marketing point of view. Thanks for that > interesting bit of trivia :) My expectation for a 945 based motherboard, would be DDR2-667 would be the top speed offered in the BIOS, when using an FSB1066 or FSB800 processor. The advertising here, mentions both DDR2-533 and DDR2-667. http://www.giga-byte.com/products/motherboard/Default.aspx?Keyword=GA-8I945P According to this Intel datasheet, DDR2-667 is supported on 945P and 945G, but not 945PL chipset. Page 24 shows what Intel thinks is supported (and I wish I knew what "DDR2-667 4-4-4 in Not supported" means from a practical standpoint): http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/30750203.pdf There is a manual for the GA-8I945P Pro here: http://tw.giga-byte.com/Support/Motherboard/Manual_DownloadFile.aspx?FileType=Manual&FileID=16407 I tried "Search by model" here: http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/configurator_search.html "You searched for the Gigabyte GA-8I945P Pro " http://compatible.corsairmemory.com/mini/memorysearch.aspx?modelid=1285 This is their suggestion of DDR2-675 (XM2S-5400UL) at 3-3-2-8 timing: http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/specs/TWIN2X1024A-5400UL.pdf Now, what your motherboard does with this, really depends on whether the FSC BIOS denies all attempts at adjusting or overclocking. The CorsairMicro mentions DDR2-675 at 2.1 volts (while 1.8V is the nominal value), so you would want some room to adjust Vdimm, to get the most from the memory (i.e. turn up Vdimm, until memtest86+ runs error free). If the FSC provided BIOS complies with the Intel intent, that DDR2-667 4-4-4 is not supported, it might even pop you down to DDR2-533. Maybe someone else has a better idea what would happen - a "vanilla" BIOS will start by reading the SPD contents from the DIMM, as that contains the clock and timing information. On an overclocker board, you could adjust all the settings to the values intended by Corsairmicro, but on an OEM motherboard, with an OEM-style BIOS, you may not have the necessary controls to make such an adjustment, and might just have to take whatever speed the BIOS ends up at. You should search for articles like this, to see what advantage you get from a higher memory speed. The memory bandwidth benchmark went up by 28% in Sandra, and the PiFast benchmark improved by maybe 5%. http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/memory/other/mushkin/DDR2/pc4200/ In this page, I see that moving from a CAS3 to a CAS4 memory is not affecting the results too much. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ddr2-ddr_5.html So, here is the strategy: 1) If the motherboard offers the ability to set CAS, Tras, Trcd etc, and the memory clock, you may be able to override any restrictions placed on the memory timings the BIOS uses. You can buy a boutique memory DDR2-675 3-3-3 if you want, and if the BIOS starts it operating at DDR2-533, you can adjust it to its specified value. Having a Vdimm adjustment in the BIOS, allows extracting all the performance it has to offer. If you don't have a Vdimm adjustment, then the timing might have to be backed off a bit. 2) If the BIOS is one of those generic, fully auto, wonder BIOS, you have a potential problem on your hands. The Intel spec sheet says DDR2-667 4-4-4 not supported, and I get the impression that some BIOS run such memory at DDR2-533. If you buy DDR2-667 5-5-5 memory, then a dumb BIOS will stay at the 667 rate. Those two articles above suggest to me that clock rate is worth more than latency, so if you are faced with a totally dumb BIOS, then a cheaper 5-5-5 DDR2-667 DIMM, may automatically give you a more desirable result, than if the BIOS downclocks a more "elite" memory. The key to success would be that the SPD contains the magic 5-5-5 values. Your job, is to examine the BIOS screens, take the settings off "Auto", and see what kind of manual adjust ments are available. If you have a good BIOS, you can buy any DDR2-667 DIMM you want, to go with an FSB800 or FSB1066 processor. The BIOS may start with a slower setting, but with manual adjustment, you can get more of what you paid for. But with OEM boards, my guess would be you'll see a dumb BIOS, and buying a DIMM that has "DDR2-667 5-5-5" timing stored in its SPD chip, would be the best you could do for the setup. HTH, Paul |