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From: Richard Maine on 2 Jan 2010 03:19
Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2010/01/02 1:24 AM nospam(a)see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:

> > If you were a lawyer (not that I am either), you would certainly want to
> > get data more directly than from highly biased heresay.
>
> It is note heresay, it is fact.

You might want to look up what heresay means. It does not mean that the
statement is non-factual. Testifying about what someone else said, or in
this case, what the license terms are, is heresay. Getting the data by
other than heresay would mean going directly to the source and reading
it there, rather than reading what someone else says that the license
says.

> If you don't want to get in the middle, you should do some more research
> before calling someones view highly biased. I am biased because I have
> done the research.

The bias was evident without even checking further. The whole tone of
the post oozed bias. Your statement above directly confirms my judgement
on that. You yourself say "I am biased because I have done the
research." Note the "I am biased" part of that statement.

I did not say that your biases were wrong. I said that they existed,
which you just explicitly confirmed.

--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
From: Larry Gusaas on 2 Jan 2010 03:53
On 2010/01/02 2:19 AM nospam(a)see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
> Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2010/01/02 1:24 AM nospam(a)see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
>
>>> If you were a lawyer (not that I am either), you would certainly want to
>>> get data more directly than from highly biased heresay.
>>
>> It is note heresay, it is fact.
>
> You might want to look up what heresay means.

Did you look it up? I can't find "heresay" in my dictionaries.

Perhaps you mean "Hearsay"? In non legalize use it is usually used in a
derogatory manner to undermine someone's statement. This is from one of
my dictionaries:

hearsay |ˈhɪəseɪ|
noun
information received from other people that one cannot adequately
substantiate; rumor : according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break
his arm.

and from it's thesaurus:

hearsay
noun
that's all hearsay, and I don't care to listen to such tripe: rumor,
gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; stories, tales; informal the
grapevine, scuttlebutt, loose lips.

And when you combine hearsay with bias, it is usually and attempt to
discredit someone's statement.

> It does not mean that the
> statement is non-factual. Testifying about what someone else said, or in
> this case, what the license terms are, is heresay. Getting the data by
> other than heresay would mean going directly to the source and reading
> it there, rather than reading what someone else says that the license
> says.

And have you done so yet? Have you found out that anything released
under the GPL and then reused has to then be released under the GPL and
cannot be released under the LGPL which is the license that
OpenOffice.org uses?

>> If you don't want to get in the middle, you should do some more research
>> before calling someones view highly biased. I am biased because I have
>> done the research.
>
> The bias was evident without even checking further. The whole tone of
> the post oozed bias. Your statement above directly confirms my judgement
> on that. You yourself say "I am biased because I have done the
> research." Note the "I am biased" part of that statement.
>
> I did not say that your biases were wrong. I said that they existed,
> which you just explicitly confirmed.

When someone calls someone's statement biased hearsay (if that is what
you intended when you wrote "heresay" or did you mean "heresy?'), it is
usually done to discredit someone's statement.

I did not see you write anything about OpenOffice.org's license, only
about NeoOffice's license. So obviously your statements are very biased
as well.

--
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese


From: E Z Peaces on 2 Jan 2010 13:20
Mike Dee wrote:
> In article <fmoore-BAFE9E.17094501012010(a)mail.eternal-september.org>,
> Fred Moore <fmoore(a)gcfn.org> wrote:
>
>> E Z Peaces <cash(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> James Hopone wrote:
>>>> Other then MS Power Point what is a good program for Mac that I can open
>>>> and watch a PPS?
> [...]
>>> Open Office. It's free.
>> or NeoOffice, the free, more Macified version of OpenOffice.org.
>> <http://www.neooffice.org/>
>
> That "may have" been the case prior to version 3.x of OpenOffice.org, my
> preference these days is for OO.o
>
> YMMV
>
I had Open Office 2.x. The interface was terrible for me. I think I
couldn't even save from the keyboard, and "save" didn't always work.
Somehow I lost a lot of work on one document.

3.x was supposed to be better, but their site said it wasn't available
for a PPC (or maybe any Mac) in English.

I found it peculiar that it seemed to be available in every other
language. Hidden away in a forum was a tip that in fact it was
available in English, but finding it was tricky. I don't know why in
the world openoffice.org operated that way.

I have 3.1.1. When I first save a document, I have to save it to the
desktop because I can't navigate to the folder I want. It takes a long
time to launch and to open a document. It seems there are other delays.

Is NeoOffice better?
From: Fred Moore on 4 Jan 2010 11:18
In article <hhm749$n5m$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010/01/01 4:09 PM Fred Moore wrote:
> > In article<hhldnu$u3d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
> > E Z Peaces<cash(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> James Hopone wrote:
> >>
> >>> Other then MS Power Point what is a good program for Mac that I can open
> >>> and watch a PPS?
> >>> Thanks all..
> >>>
> >> Open Office. It's free.
> >>
> > or NeoOffice, the free, more Macified version of OpenOffice.org.
> > <http://www.neooffice.org/>
>
> NeoOffice. The company that takes OpenOffice.org code
> modifies/improves?/fixes it then releases it under a different license
> so OpenOffice.org can not use any of the fixes they develop.
> Also the company that does not provide user support anymore unless you
> contribute money to the project.

Since 'facts' came up later in this thread, it is a FACT that OOo has
always treated the Mac as an afterthought. I and many others have
firsthand knowledge of this. Otherwise, NeoO wouldn't have ever been
developed.

Now what I know from hearsay is that the NeoO folks, both before they
started the project and after, have largely been given the cold shoulder
by OOo despite having offered code back to OOo. OOo wasn't interested in
cooperating in developing for a 'third-rate platform'.
From: Fred Moore on 4 Jan 2010 11:54
In article <emteedee-A17656.12361902012010(a)newsfeed.aioe.org>,
Mike Dee <emteedee(a)emteedee.invalid> wrote:

> In article <fmoore-BAFE9E.17094501012010(a)mail.eternal-september.org>,
> Fred Moore <fmoore(a)gcfn.org> wrote:
>
> > E Z Peaces <cash(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > James Hopone wrote:
> > > > Other then MS Power Point what is a good program for Mac that I can
> > > > open
> > > > and watch a PPS?
> [...]
> > > Open Office. It's free.
> >
> > or NeoOffice, the free, more Macified version of OpenOffice.org.
> > <http://www.neooffice.org/>
>
> That "may have" been the case prior to version 3.x of OpenOffice.org, my
> preference these days is for OO.o
>
> YMMV

Please don't get me wrong, OOo3 Aqua is an excellent app. It is after
all the basis of NeoO3. However, having worked with both, I find that
NeoO is generally easier to work with and (more importantly) more
stable. Also, NeoO has the Mac and Mac user at the heart of its reason
for existence. Its goal is to make an excellent word processing app even
better **for*Mac*users**. It has many large and small features for Mac
users that OOo doesn't have.

Here is a link to compare some features of NeoO3, OOo3, and M$O2008:
<http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/NeoOffice_Feature_Comparison>

And here is a NeoO forum thread in which I participated discussing the
issue of NeoO3 vs OOo3:
<http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=69
03&highlight=>
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