Web application architecture (subdomain vs. sub directory)
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From: Tim Martens on 25 Aug 2010 14:45 Hi Everyone, New to the list. Hello! I'm in the customer discovery phase for a Health IT web application concept I have. My programmer is new to web apps, but not to programming and is set up with LAM(PHP). We're still debating weather to use a framework or to go with Rasmus's "no framework framework" approach. Language/Framework decisions aside... my main question is about subdomain ( customerx.appname.com vs subdirectory (appname.com/customerx/) models for instances of individual customers' accounts. It seems most people are opting for the former -- is this but a trebd? -- but I see flickr use the latter. The guys at Particletree (i.e., Wufoo) wrote a blog post about it ( http://particletree.com/notebook/subdomains-development-sucks/) years ago to which they still attest. They say the subdirectory model is much easier and faster to develop and deploy. We are developing locally on our macs and will be using Mecurial/Bitbucket for CVS. I'm really lost on this issue as all my searches turn up stuff on SEO/SEM. Is one approach easier that the other? What about security and scalability considerations? I would very much appreciate your opinions as to the pros and cons of each approach. As an aside, does anyone have some advice about rapid PHP deployment, i.e., pushing new features to production daily in micro iterations vs the typical milestone approach? Are there any good tools for this? What about hosts? Thanks all, Tim
From: Peter Lind on 25 Aug 2010 15:01 On 25 August 2010 20:54, Ashley Sheridan <ash(a)ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 13:45 -0500, Tim Martens wrote: > > If you're new to PHP, I would recommend not using a framework for the > experience you will gain with the language, as a framework will tend to > hide away certain caveats and peculiarities of PHP which could lead to > issues further down the line. Most people I know who are great PHP > programmers have tended to start without frameworks at first. > > Having said that, if you're looking for a rapid deployment with a > shorter learning curve, then a framework might be better in this > situation. > You could also argue that using a framework is more likely to promote good habits, as there's a bigger chance you'll be forced down good paths. Regards Peter -- <hype> WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind BeWelcome/Couchsurfing: Fake51 Twitter: http://twitter.com/kafe15 </hype>
From: Nathan Nobbe on 25 Aug 2010 15:07 On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Tim Martens <tim.martens(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Language/Framework decisions aside... my main question is about subdomain ( > customerx.appname.com vs subdirectory (appname.com/customerx/) models for > instances of individual customers' accounts. > > It seems most people are opting for the former -- is this but a trebd? -- > but I see flickr use the latter. The guys at Particletree (i.e., Wufoo) > wrote a blog post about it ( > http://particletree.com/notebook/subdomains-development-sucks/) years ago > to > which they still attest. > subdomains are useful for separating out various applications on a site. for example, suppose you have a client facing application w/ a backend, then a separate application for coordinating development of this app, trac for example. say your main url is blah.com. for the main app you might just take your blah.com proper (this is typical), then for the trac site you have trac.blah.com. within each of these applications the subdirectory approach is taken. basically if you were to use a subdomain approach for a single app it would typically need to be massive to rationalize (unless youre insane). lots of large sites use subdomains to implement distribution. say you have a big image hosting site, all the images are stored on s3, so you might have images.blah.com in that case (note the images are hosted on separate infrastructure). just general guidelines, quite vague, but hopefully helpful. -nathan
From: "Steven Staples" on 25 Aug 2010 15:12 I started out not using a framework... then I started at a company who used a "zend" like framework, worked there for a bit, then moved on, and started using cake... I found that they were great for what they are... but really simplified things too much, so I created my own framework, incorporating the classes that I use all the time (smarty/fpdf/jquery/tinymce), and with that, I learned a LOT about how things really worked. I would suggest looking at the core of the frameworks to see how things are put together, and how they really work... but maybe make one that is more custom to your application? As for subdomain vs subdirectory, if your using SSL, then you would need a wildcard SSL which is usually more money. Eitherway you choose, you will have to program around it. The app that I created uses subdomains, because we were using CA SSL Certs, and the clients preferred to have their own IP's... long story, not my call, I just program it :P Steven Staples > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Lind [mailto:peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com] > Sent: August 25, 2010 3:01 PM > To: ash(a)ashleysheridan.co.uk > Cc: Tim Martens; php-general(a)lists.php.net > Subject: Re: [PHP] Web application architecture (subdomain vs. sub > directory) > > On 25 August 2010 20:54, Ashley Sheridan <ash(a)ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote: > > On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 13:45 -0500, Tim Martens wrote: > > > > If you're new to PHP, I would recommend not using a framework for the > > experience you will gain with the language, as a framework will tend to > > hide away certain caveats and peculiarities of PHP which could lead to > > issues further down the line. Most people I know who are great PHP > > programmers have tended to start without frameworks at first. > > > > Having said that, if you're looking for a rapid deployment with a > > shorter learning curve, then a framework might be better in this > > situation. > > > > You could also argue that using a framework is more likely to promote > good habits, as there's a bigger chance you'll be forced down good > paths. > > Regards > Peter > > -- > <hype> > WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind > BeWelcome/Couchsurfing: Fake51 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kafe15 > </hype> > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3089 - Release Date: 08/25/10 > 02:34:00
From: Shreyas Agasthya on 25 Aug 2010 15:20 I am not sure who the end-users are for your website but if you are concerned about scalability, I would definitely go for a sub-domain approach. Assuming you approach a CDN like Akamai and you want to offload the traffic to come from the cloud, it's lot easier for you to integrate with them and to maintain. The subdirectory approach, whereas, is very cumbersome and takes more work at your end to paraphrase the whole set-up should the needs change going forward. Regards, Shreyas On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Steven Staples <sstaples(a)mnsi.net> wrote: > I started out not using a framework... then I started at a company who used > a "zend" like framework, worked there for a bit, then moved on, and started > using cake... > > I found that they were great for what they are... but really simplified > things too much, so I created my own framework, incorporating the classes > that I use all the time (smarty/fpdf/jquery/tinymce), and with that, I > learned a LOT about how things really worked. > > I would suggest looking at the core of the frameworks to see how things are > put together, and how they really work... but maybe make one that is more > custom to your application? > > As for subdomain vs subdirectory, if your using SSL, then you would need a > wildcard SSL which is usually more money. Eitherway you choose, you will > have to program around it. The app that I created uses subdomains, because > we were using CA SSL Certs, and the clients preferred to have their own > IP's... long story, not my call, I just program it :P > > > Steven Staples > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Lind [mailto:peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com] > > Sent: August 25, 2010 3:01 PM > > To: ash(a)ashleysheridan.co.uk > > Cc: Tim Martens; php-general(a)lists.php.net > > Subject: Re: [PHP] Web application architecture (subdomain vs. sub > > directory) > > > > On 25 August 2010 20:54, Ashley Sheridan <ash(a)ashleysheridan.co.uk> > wrote: > > > On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 13:45 -0500, Tim Martens wrote: > > > > > > If you're new to PHP, I would recommend not using a framework for the > > > experience you will gain with the language, as a framework will tend to > > > hide away certain caveats and peculiarities of PHP which could lead to > > > issues further down the line. Most people I know who are great PHP > > > programmers have tended to start without frameworks at first. > > > > > > Having said that, if you're looking for a rapid deployment with a > > > shorter learning curve, then a framework might be better in this > > > situation. > > > > > > > You could also argue that using a framework is more likely to promote > > good habits, as there's a bigger chance you'll be forced down good > > paths. > > > > Regards > > Peter > > > > -- > > <hype> > > WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind > > BeWelcome/Couchsurfing: Fake51 > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kafe15 > > </hype> > > > > -- > > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3089 - Release Date: 08/25/10 > > 02:34:00 > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- Regards, Shreyas Agasthya
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