Prev: AZ Senate Bill 1070...
Next: How to solder to solar panels.
From: Phil Hobbs on 1 May 2010 17:10
Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:46:37 +0100, "Andrew Holme" <ah(a)nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What is this oscillator configuration called?
>
> Not a very good crystal oscillator... it's not linear.
>
> If you want quality, do it this way...
>
> http://analog-innovations.com/SED/XtalSeriesOsc.pdf
>
>> It seems to have some good and useful features: easy to control XTAL drive
>> level; operates in series resonant mode; differential square-ish wave output
>> with fast rise time; very good amplitude stability versus supply voltage
>> variation; no relaxation mode if crystal removed; no need to tune-out C0
>> holder capacitance; simple single-point power-supply decoupling.
>>
>> What are the disadvantages? Two active devices = more noise? But the
>> Butler and Driscoll circuits use two active devices. No LC frequency
>> selectivity to force XTAL onto correct harmonic? But that could be added...
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> LTSpice .ASC file:
>>
>> Version 4
>> SHEET 1 928 744
>> WIRE -80 -160 -128 -160
>> WIRE 48 -160 0 -160
>> WIRE 96 -160 48 -160
>> WIRE 224 -160 176 -160
>> WIRE 48 -112 48 -160
>> WIRE 48 0 48 -32
>> WIRE -128 48 -128 -160
>> WIRE -16 48 -128 48
>> WIRE 224 48 224 -160
>> WIRE 224 48 112 48
>> WIRE -128 128 -128 48
>> WIRE 224 128 224 48
>> WIRE -16 176 112 48
>> WIRE -16 176 -64 176
>> WIRE 112 176 -16 48
>> WIRE 160 176 112 176
>> WIRE -128 272 -128 224
>> WIRE 32 272 -128 272
>> WIRE 224 272 224 224
>> WIRE 224 272 96 272
>> WIRE -128 384 -128 272
>> WIRE -80 384 -128 384
>> WIRE 32 384 0 384
>> WIRE 112 384 96 384
>> WIRE 224 384 224 272
>> WIRE 224 384 192 384
>> WIRE 224 432 224 384
>> WIRE 352 432 224 432
>> WIRE -128 480 -128 384
>> WIRE 224 480 224 432
>> WIRE 352 480 352 432
>> WIRE -128 608 -128 560
>> WIRE 224 608 224 560
>> WIRE 352 608 352 560
>> FLAG 48 0 0
>> FLAG 224 608 0
>> FLAG 352 608 0
>> FLAG -128 608 0
>> SYMBOL voltage 48 -128 R0
>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
>> SYMATTR InstName V2
>> SYMATTR Value 5
>> SYMBOL npn 160 128 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName Q1
>> SYMATTR Value 2N3904
>> SYMBOL npn -64 128 M0
>> SYMATTR InstName Q2
>> SYMATTR Value 2N3904
>> SYMBOL current 352 480 R0
>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
>> SYMATTR InstName I2
>> SYMATTR Value SINE(0 1e-3 10e6 0 0 0 10)
>> SYMBOL ind -96 400 R270
>> WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 0
>> WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 0
>> SYMATTR InstName L1
>> SYMATTR Value 0.0253303
>> SYMATTR SpiceLine Rpar=1e300
>> SYMBOL cap 96 368 R90
>> WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
>> WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
>> SYMATTR InstName C1
>> SYMATTR Value 10f
>> SYMBOL res 208 368 R90
>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>> SYMATTR InstName R1
>> SYMATTR Value 20
>> SYMBOL res 192 -176 R90
>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>> SYMATTR InstName R2
>> SYMATTR Value 1k
>> SYMBOL res 16 -176 R90
>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>> SYMATTR InstName R3
>> SYMATTR Value 1k
>> SYMBOL cap 96 256 R90
>> WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
>> WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
>> SYMATTR InstName C0
>> SYMATTR Value 5p
>> SYMBOL res 208 464 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName R4
>> SYMATTR Value 3k3
>> SYMBOL res -144 464 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName R5
>> SYMATTR Value 3k3
>> TEXT 16 600 Left 0 !.tran 1m
>>
>>
>>
>
> ...Jim Thompson

You're kidding with that bias scheme, right? You really want amplitude
limiting from BJT saturation? Cutoff is much much quieter, but AGC is
where it's at for simple oscillators (e.g. your MC1648 from long ago)
and bridge circuits can pretty well eliminate phase noise due to the
active devices.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
From: Jim Thompson on 1 May 2010 20:07
On Sat, 01 May 2010 17:10:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:46:37 +0100, "Andrew Holme" <ah(a)nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is this oscillator configuration called?
>>
>> Not a very good crystal oscillator... it's not linear.
>>
>> If you want quality, do it this way...
>>
>> http://analog-innovations.com/SED/XtalSeriesOsc.pdf
>>
>>> It seems to have some good and useful features: easy to control XTAL drive
>>> level; operates in series resonant mode; differential square-ish wave output
>>> with fast rise time; very good amplitude stability versus supply voltage
>>> variation; no relaxation mode if crystal removed; no need to tune-out C0
>>> holder capacitance; simple single-point power-supply decoupling.
>>>
>>> What are the disadvantages? Two active devices = more noise? But the
>>> Butler and Driscoll circuits use two active devices. No LC frequency
>>> selectivity to force XTAL onto correct harmonic? But that could be added...
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> LTSpice .ASC file:
>>>
>>> Version 4
>>> SHEET 1 928 744
>>> WIRE -80 -160 -128 -160
>>> WIRE 48 -160 0 -160
>>> WIRE 96 -160 48 -160
>>> WIRE 224 -160 176 -160
>>> WIRE 48 -112 48 -160
>>> WIRE 48 0 48 -32
>>> WIRE -128 48 -128 -160
>>> WIRE -16 48 -128 48
>>> WIRE 224 48 224 -160
>>> WIRE 224 48 112 48
>>> WIRE -128 128 -128 48
>>> WIRE 224 128 224 48
>>> WIRE -16 176 112 48
>>> WIRE -16 176 -64 176
>>> WIRE 112 176 -16 48
>>> WIRE 160 176 112 176
>>> WIRE -128 272 -128 224
>>> WIRE 32 272 -128 272
>>> WIRE 224 272 224 224
>>> WIRE 224 272 96 272
>>> WIRE -128 384 -128 272
>>> WIRE -80 384 -128 384
>>> WIRE 32 384 0 384
>>> WIRE 112 384 96 384
>>> WIRE 224 384 224 272
>>> WIRE 224 384 192 384
>>> WIRE 224 432 224 384
>>> WIRE 352 432 224 432
>>> WIRE -128 480 -128 384
>>> WIRE 224 480 224 432
>>> WIRE 352 480 352 432
>>> WIRE -128 608 -128 560
>>> WIRE 224 608 224 560
>>> WIRE 352 608 352 560
>>> FLAG 48 0 0
>>> FLAG 224 608 0
>>> FLAG 352 608 0
>>> FLAG -128 608 0
>>> SYMBOL voltage 48 -128 R0
>>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
>>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName V2
>>> SYMATTR Value 5
>>> SYMBOL npn 160 128 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName Q1
>>> SYMATTR Value 2N3904
>>> SYMBOL npn -64 128 M0
>>> SYMATTR InstName Q2
>>> SYMATTR Value 2N3904
>>> SYMBOL current 352 480 R0
>>> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
>>> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName I2
>>> SYMATTR Value SINE(0 1e-3 10e6 0 0 0 10)
>>> SYMBOL ind -96 400 R270
>>> WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 0
>>> WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName L1
>>> SYMATTR Value 0.0253303
>>> SYMATTR SpiceLine Rpar=1e300
>>> SYMBOL cap 96 368 R90
>>> WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
>>> WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName C1
>>> SYMATTR Value 10f
>>> SYMBOL res 208 368 R90
>>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName R1
>>> SYMATTR Value 20
>>> SYMBOL res 192 -176 R90
>>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName R2
>>> SYMATTR Value 1k
>>> SYMBOL res 16 -176 R90
>>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName R3
>>> SYMATTR Value 1k
>>> SYMBOL cap 96 256 R90
>>> WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
>>> WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
>>> SYMATTR InstName C0
>>> SYMATTR Value 5p
>>> SYMBOL res 208 464 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName R4
>>> SYMATTR Value 3k3
>>> SYMBOL res -144 464 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName R5
>>> SYMATTR Value 3k3
>>> TEXT 16 600 Left 0 !.tran 1m
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>You're kidding with that bias scheme, right? You really want amplitude
>limiting from BJT saturation? Cutoff is much much quieter, but AGC is
>where it's at for simple oscillators (e.g. your MC1648 from long ago)
>and bridge circuits can pretty well eliminate phase noise due to the
>active devices.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

Come on, Phil, were we starting from 'quality' ?:-)

Send some Mexicans to NY ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy
From: Jamie on 1 May 2010 20:16
Jim Thompson wrote:

> On Sat, 01 May 2010 17:10:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:46:37 +0100, "Andrew Holme" <ah(a)nospam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>What is this oscillator configuration called?
>>>
>>>Not a very good crystal oscillator... it's not linear.
>>>
>>>If you want quality, do it this way...
>>>
>>>http://analog-innovations.com/SED/XtalSeriesOsc.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>>It seems to have some good and useful features: easy to control XTAL drive
>>>>level; operates in series resonant mode; differential square-ish wave output
>>>>with fast rise time; very good amplitude stability versus supply voltage
>>>>variation; no relaxation mode if crystal removed; no need to tune-out C0
>>>>holder capacitance; simple single-point power-supply decoupling.
>>>>
>>>>What are the disadvantages? Two active devices = more noise? But the
>>>>Butler and Driscoll circuits use two active devices. No LC frequency
>>>>selectivity to force XTAL onto correct harmonic? But that could be added...
>>>>
>>>>TIA
>>>>
>>>>LTSpice .ASC file:
>>>>
>>>>Version 4
>>>>SHEET 1 928 744
>>>>WIRE -80 -160 -128 -160
>>>>WIRE 48 -160 0 -160
>>>>WIRE 96 -160 48 -160
>>>>WIRE 224 -160 176 -160
>>>>WIRE 48 -112 48 -160
>>>>WIRE 48 0 48 -32
>>>>WIRE -128 48 -128 -160
>>>>WIRE -16 48 -128 48
>>>>WIRE 224 48 224 -160
>>>>WIRE 224 48 112 48
>>>>WIRE -128 128 -128 48
>>>>WIRE 224 128 224 48
>>>>WIRE -16 176 112 48
>>>>WIRE -16 176 -64 176
>>>>WIRE 112 176 -16 48
>>>>WIRE 160 176 112 176
>>>>WIRE -128 272 -128 224
>>>>WIRE 32 272 -128 272
>>>>WIRE 224 272 224 224
>>>>WIRE 224 272 96 272
>>>>WIRE -128 384 -128 272
>>>>WIRE -80 384 -128 384
>>>>WIRE 32 384 0 384
>>>>WIRE 112 384 96 384
>>>>WIRE 224 384 224 272
>>>>WIRE 224 384 192 384
>>>>WIRE 224 432 224 384
>>>>WIRE 352 432 224 432
>>>>WIRE -128 480 -128 384
>>>>WIRE 224 480 224 432
>>>>WIRE 352 480 352 432
>>>>WIRE -128 608 -128 560
>>>>WIRE 224 608 224 560
>>>>WIRE 352 608 352 560
>>>>FLAG 48 0 0
>>>>FLAG 224 608 0
>>>>FLAG 352 608 0
>>>>FLAG -128 608 0
>>>>SYMBOL voltage 48 -128 R0
>>>>WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
>>>>WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName V2
>>>>SYMATTR Value 5
>>>>SYMBOL npn 160 128 R0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName Q1
>>>>SYMATTR Value 2N3904
>>>>SYMBOL npn -64 128 M0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName Q2
>>>>SYMATTR Value 2N3904
>>>>SYMBOL current 352 480 R0
>>>>WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
>>>>WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName I2
>>>>SYMATTR Value SINE(0 1e-3 10e6 0 0 0 10)
>>>>SYMBOL ind -96 400 R270
>>>>WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 0
>>>>WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName L1
>>>>SYMATTR Value 0.0253303
>>>>SYMATTR SpiceLine Rpar=1e300
>>>>SYMBOL cap 96 368 R90
>>>>WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
>>>>WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName C1
>>>>SYMATTR Value 10f
>>>>SYMBOL res 208 368 R90
>>>>WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>>>>WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName R1
>>>>SYMATTR Value 20
>>>>SYMBOL res 192 -176 R90
>>>>WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>>>>WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName R2
>>>>SYMATTR Value 1k
>>>>SYMBOL res 16 -176 R90
>>>>WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
>>>>WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName R3
>>>>SYMATTR Value 1k
>>>>SYMBOL cap 96 256 R90
>>>>WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
>>>>WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName C0
>>>>SYMATTR Value 5p
>>>>SYMBOL res 208 464 R0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName R4
>>>>SYMATTR Value 3k3
>>>>SYMBOL res -144 464 R0
>>>>SYMATTR InstName R5
>>>>SYMATTR Value 3k3
>>>>TEXT 16 600 Left 0 !.tran 1m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>>You're kidding with that bias scheme, right? You really want amplitude
>>limiting from BJT saturation? Cutoff is much much quieter, but AGC is
>>where it's at for simple oscillators (e.g. your MC1648 from long ago)
>>and bridge circuits can pretty well eliminate phase noise due to the
>>active devices.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Phil Hobbs
>
>
> Come on, Phil, were we starting from 'quality' ?:-)
>
> Send some Mexicans to NY ;-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
There are plenty already there!



From: Michael A. Terrell on 1 May 2010 23:46

Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> Come on, Phil, were we starting from 'quality' ?:-)
>
> Send some Mexicans to NY ;-)


To teach them how to make better Salsa?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
From: Andrew Holme on 2 May 2010 06:19

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:4BDC98C5.5010503(a)electrooptical.net...
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:46:37 +0100, "Andrew Holme" <ah(a)nospam.com>
>> wrote:

[big snip]

> You're kidding with that bias scheme, right? You really want amplitude
> limiting from BJT saturation? Cutoff is much much quieter, but AGC is
> where it's at for simple oscillators (e.g. your MC1648 from long ago) and
> bridge circuits can pretty well eliminate phase noise due to the active
> devices.

What sort of bridge is that Phil? Do you mean like in "A NEW TYPE OF
BALANCED-BRIDGE CONTROLLED OSCILLATOR" by R. K. Karlquist ? Can you provide
any references?

TIA


First  |  Prev  |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3
Prev: AZ Senate Bill 1070...
Next: How to solder to solar panels.