What is the experimentally measurable difference between rest mass and the 'relativistic mass' of the photon ??!!
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From: artful on 6 May 2010 02:04 On May 6, 1:36 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: [snip for brevity[ > MR PD > what is the formula of > the photon momentum?? Don't you know? p = h / lambda Experiments have measured photon momentum and found that to be the case. Just as they have measured photon energy and found it is E = h f And of course E = pc Which, as one expects, that gives you c = lamda f Isn't it nice how those formulas relate? Didn't you know all this? > 2 > what are the M K S dimensions in it Don't you know? Its the same as for any other momentum value .. dimensions are M L / T .. the unit system doesn't change that. Do you think there is more than one kind of momentum .. each with different units?
From: Y.Porat on 6 May 2010 02:51 On May 6, 8:04 am, artful <artful...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > On May 6, 1:36 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > [snip for brevity[ > > > MR PD > > what is the formula of > > the photon momentum?? > > Don't you know? > > p = h / lambda > > Experiments have measured photon momentum and found that to be the > case. > Just as they have measured photon energy and found it is > > E = h f > > And of course > > E = pc > > Which, as one expects, that gives you > > c = lamda f > > Isn't it nice how those formulas relate? > > Didn't you know all this? > > > 2 > > what are the M K S dimensions in it > > Don't you know? > > Its the same as for any other momentum value .. dimensions are M L / > T .. the unit system doesn't change that. Do you think there is more > than one kind of momentum .. each with different units? ------------------- since theother part pf PD ie the othjer name he uses answered reasonably i wil ask PD and only him because an anonymous is not responsible for his words here so we found that the **mKS **dimensions of photon muimentum is as Artful said above ie P= M L/T even artful tied to chest a bit ... because i was asking about **PHOTON MOMENTUM** AND NOT **ANY* MOMENTUM!! MY QUESTION WAS NOT ACCIDENTALLY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE PHOTON MOMENTUM AND NOT ANY MOMENTUM!! so the right momentum*DIMENSIONS for **photon *momentum** is P (dimensions ) = M c ie M times 30000000 Meter/Second (AND NOT M V/T !!) and now i would like PD to confirm it !! AND ONLY * PD* TO CONFIRM IT TIA to PD Y.Porat ---------------------------
From: artful on 6 May 2010 07:47 On May 6, 4:51 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 6, 8:04 am, artful <artful...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 6, 1:36 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > [snip for brevity[ > > > > MR PD > > > what is the formula of > > > the photon momentum?? > > > Don't you know? > > > p = h / lambda > > > Experiments have measured photon momentum and found that to be the > > case. > > Just as they have measured photon energy and found it is > > > E = h f > > > And of course > > > E = pc > > > Which, as one expects, that gives you > > > c = lamda f > > > Isn't it nice how those formulas relate? > > > Didn't you know all this? > > > > 2 > > > what are the M K S dimensions in it > > > Don't you know? > > > Its the same as for any other momentum value .. dimensions are M L / > > T .. the unit system doesn't change that. Do you think there is more > > than one kind of momentum .. each with different units? > > ------------------- > since theother part pf PD > ie the othjer name he uses What other name he uses? > answered reasonably i wil ask PD > and only him because an anonymous > is not responsible for his words here > so > we found that > the **mKS **dimensions of photon muimentum is as Artful said above ie > > P= M L/T of course .. that is what any momentum is .. momentum is momentum .. whether for a photon or a ball or a rocket ship or ... > even artful tied to chest a bit ... No cheating at all. > because i was asking > about **PHOTON MOMENTUM** > AND NOT **ANY* MOMENTUM!! I gave the formulas specifically for photon momentum. And photon energy. And how they/e relate. The dimensions of photon momentum are IDENTICAL as any momentum .. all momentum has the same dimensions. That's what makes it momentum. > MY QUESTION WAS NOT ACCIDENTALLY > SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE > PHOTON MOMENTUM AND NOT ANY MOMENTUM!! And I gave you the answer for photon momentum. Which is the same as for any momentum. > so the right momentum*DIMENSIONS for **photon *momentum** > is > P (dimensions ) = M c ie First P = mc is not the formula for photon momentum But certainly the DIMENSIONS of photon momentum (like any momentum) is M L / T > M times 30000000 Meter/Second Yes (close enough) .. so units are M L / T > (AND NOT M V/T !!) Noone said it was M V/T .. why don't you talk about what others actually say, and not invent things (ie lie) to argue against? > and now i would like PD to confirm it !! > > AND ONLY * PD* TO CONFIRM IT > > TIA to PD I'm sure he will .. because you're agreeing with me. Lets see what he says (if anything).
From: bert on 6 May 2010 09:48 On May 6, 7:47 am, artful <artful...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > On May 6, 4:51 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 6, 8:04 am, artful <artful...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 6, 1:36 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > [snip for brevity[ > > > > > MR PD > > > > what is the formula of > > > > the photon momentum?? > > > > Don't you know? > > > > p = h / lambda > > > > Experiments have measured photon momentum and found that to be the > > > case. > > > Just as they have measured photon energy and found it is > > > > E = h f > > > > And of course > > > > E = pc > > > > Which, as one expects, that gives you > > > > c = lamda f > > > > Isn't it nice how those formulas relate? > > > > Didn't you know all this? > > > > > 2 > > > > what are the M K S dimensions in it > > > > Don't you know? > > > > Its the same as for any other momentum value .. dimensions are M L / > > > T .. the unit system doesn't change that. Do you think there is more > > > than one kind of momentum .. each with different units? > > > ------------------- > > since theother part pf PD > > ie the othjer name he uses > > What other name he uses? > > > answered reasonably i wil ask PD > > and only him because an anonymous > > is not responsible for his words here > > so > > we found that > > the **mKS **dimensions of photon muimentum is as Artful said above ie > > > P= M L/T > > of course .. that is what any momentum is .. momentum is momentum .. > whether for a photon or a ball or a rocket ship or ... > > > even artful tied to chest a bit ... > > No cheating at all. > > > because i was asking > > about **PHOTON MOMENTUM** > > AND NOT **ANY* MOMENTUM!! > > I gave the formulas specifically for photon momentum. And photon > energy. And how they/e relate. > > The dimensions of photon momentum are IDENTICAL as any momentum .. all > momentum has the same dimensions. That's what makes it momentum. > > > MY QUESTION WAS NOT ACCIDENTALLY > > SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE > > PHOTON MOMENTUM AND NOT ANY MOMENTUM!! > > And I gave you the answer for photon momentum. Which is the same as > for any momentum. > > > so the right momentum*DIMENSIONS for **photon *momentum** > > is > > P (dimensions ) = M c ie > > First P = mc is not the formula for photon momentum > > But certainly the DIMENSIONS of photon momentum (like any momentum) is > M L / T > > > M times 30000000 Meter/Second > > Yes (close enough) .. so units are M L / T > > > (AND NOT M V/T !!) > > Noone said it was M V/T .. why don't you talk about what others > actually say, and not invent things (ie lie) to argue against? > > > and now i would like PD to confirm it !! > > > AND ONLY * PD* TO CONFIRM IT > > > TIA to PD > > I'm sure he will .. because you're agreeing with me. Lets see what he > says (if anything).- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - It would not be a photon if it ever was made to go slower than c Nor do photons bounce. It could not be an electron if its structure of spinning photons did not spin at c. All this is the heart of my "Spin is in theory" It gives the answer to hard questions. It is based on reality. trebert
From: PD on 6 May 2010 10:03
On May 6, 1:51 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 6, 8:04 am, artful <artful...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 6, 1:36 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > [snip for brevity[ > > > > MR PD > > > what is the formula of > > > the photon momentum?? > > > Don't you know? > > > p = h / lambda > > > Experiments have measured photon momentum and found that to be the > > case. > > Just as they have measured photon energy and found it is > > > E = h f > > > And of course > > > E = pc > > > Which, as one expects, that gives you > > > c = lamda f > > > Isn't it nice how those formulas relate? > > > Didn't you know all this? > > > > 2 > > > what are the M K S dimensions in it > > > Don't you know? > > > Its the same as for any other momentum value .. dimensions are M L / > > T .. the unit system doesn't change that. Do you think there is more > > than one kind of momentum .. each with different units? > > ------------------- > since theother part pf PD > ie the othjer name he uses > answered reasonably i wil ask PD > and only him because an anonymous > is not responsible for his words here > so > we found that > the **mKS **dimensions of photon muimentum is as Artful said above ie > > P= M L/T > even artful tied to chest a bit ... > > because i was asking > about **PHOTON MOMENTUM** > AND NOT **ANY* MOMENTUM!! > MY QUESTION WAS NOT ACCIDENTALLY > SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE > PHOTON MOMENTUM AND NOT ANY MOMENTUM!! > > so the right momentum*DIMENSIONS for **photon *momentum** > is > > P (dimensions ) = M c ie > M times 30000000 Meter/Second > > (AND NOT M V/T !!) The dimensions of momentum -- any momentum -- are [M][L]/[T] P=mc is not the momentum of a photon, never has been, never will be. All of the expressions listed above for the photon momentum have dimensions M][L]/[T]. But you do not derive from this information that any quantity that has momentum has nonzero mass, length, and duration. That would be an abomination of dimensional analysis. The dimensions of force are [M][L]/{T]^2. From this it is improper to derive any force has nonzero mass, length, or duration. The permeability of empty space has dimensions [L][M]/([I]^2[T]^2. From this it is improper to derive that empty space has a nonzero length, mass, current, and duration. You have an abominable, simply abominable misunderstanding of what dimensional analysis means. It does NOT mean that you can look at the dimensions of the property of something and figure out what other properties that something has. This is NOT what dimensional analysis does for you. And you have misused it now for I'm guessing three decades or so. > > and now i would like PD to confirm it !! > > AND ONLY * PD* TO CONFIRM IT > > TIA to PD > Y.Porat > --------------------------- |