When some idiot tells you to buy a 500+ W power supply...
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From: Steve Stone on 10 Mar 2010 20:50 John Doe wrote: > (white noise) .......whether > he has ever actually measured the wattage a typical PC uses. Since he > can buy a wattage meter "Kill-A-Watt" for $20 US, there is no excuse > for any such "technician" to remain ignorant. If you buy a junk power > supply, you might need 500 W, but you are still going to get a junk > power supply that outputs garbage and could trash your system. > Does a power supply that is rated at 500 watts equate to 500 watts input or 500 watts output?
From: Paul on 10 Mar 2010 23:21 Steve Stone wrote: > John Doe wrote: >> (white noise) .......whether he has ever actually measured the wattage >> a typical PC uses. Since he can buy a wattage meter "Kill-A-Watt" for >> $20 US, there is no excuse for any such "technician" to remain >> ignorant. If you buy a junk power supply, you might need 500 W, but >> you are still going to get a junk power supply that outputs garbage >> and could trash your system. > > Does a power supply that is rated at 500 watts equate to 500 watts input > or 500 watts output? That is a rating of its maximum allowed output. Only as much power as the computer needs at the moment, is drawn from the wall. If John had a 1000W or a 500W ATX supply, the power meter he is using would still read and indicate the 120W number. That is all the power that the computer is using at the moment. Could he use a 120W supply ? No. Since it is difficult to load the multiple outputs in exactly the right way, to draw the supply maximum rating number. There will always be some overcapacity in the supply you buy, if you expect the computer to keep running. All the numbers printed on the power supply label mean something, and you should learn what they all mean, to make a knowledgeable purchase of a supply. I'm talking about the small table of numbers here, not all the Chinese characters :-) http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-151-080-S10?$S640W$ Paul
From: John Doe on 11 Mar 2010 04:36 Paul <nospam needed.com> wrote: > Steve Stone wrote: >> John Doe wrote: >>> Since he can buy a wattage meter "Kill-A-Watt" for $20 US, >>> there is no excuse for any such "technician" to remain >>> ignorant. If you buy a junk power supply, you might need 500 >>> W, but you are still going to get a junk power supply that >>> outputs garbage and could trash your system. >> >> Does a power supply that is rated at 500 watts equate to 500 >> watts input or 500 watts output? Rated wattage means little or nothing by itself. You would be better off thinking about the brand and reputation of the specific power supply you have in mind. > That is a rating of its maximum allowed output. Only as much > power as the computer needs at the moment, is drawn from the > wall. The amount of power that the whole system needs is drawn from the wall, Paul. That power measurement at the meter includes power supply inefficiency. The required power supply output is actually less than that. > If John had a 1000W or a 500W ATX supply, the power meter he is > using would still read and indicate the 120W number. That is all > the power that the computer is using at the moment. That is all the power that the system is using at the moment, including the power supply inefficiency. The required power supply output is actually less than the number measured at the wall, Paul. > Could he use a 120W supply ? Of course not, Paul, even if you ignore the "195 W" number I mentioned. By the way... It is more like 112 W when doing stuff like writing a USENET post. Still a lot of power for writing a USENET post. > Since it is difficult to load the multiple outputs in exactly > the right way, to draw the supply maximum rating number. There > will always be some overcapacity in the supply you buy Sure there will be, Paul, but how much? Of course the ignorant fucktards who spew the "500+ W" power supply bullshit might not really be ignorant, they might be selling something... > All the numbers printed on the power supply label mean > something, and you should learn what they all mean, to make a > knowledgeable purchase of a supply. Yup. That is what I did years ago when purchasing a 380 W Antec "TruePower 2" that is currently powering my quad-core gaming system. Besides looking at power supply labels, you should also consider using inexpensive and readily available tools like the previously mentioned meter to get a clue about what your system(s) actually needs. Heck, the cost of the meter is much less than the cost difference between a silly and reasonable power supply. -- > I'm talking about the small table of numbers here, not all the > Chinese characters :-) > > http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-151-080-S10?$S640W$ > > Paul > > > Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: Paul <nospam needed.com> > Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt > Subject: Re: When some idiot tells you to buy a 500+ W power supply... > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:21:01 -0500 > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider > Lines: 31 > Message-ID: <hn9r3d$ri3$1 news.eternal-september.org> > References: <4b982cb5$0$24367$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com> <hn9i8m$fid$1 news.eternal-september.org> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Injection-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:21:02 +0000 (UTC) > Injection-Info: feeder.eternal-september.org; posting-host="gE5FRK4rKzcrhI7jcfPchQ"; logging-data="28227"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+O0L0JXULWZdXnJ/eTH5eM6gccIv53rd0=" > User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) > In-Reply-To: <hn9i8m$fid$1 news.eternal-september.org> > Cancel-Lock: sha1:hUNTUGSb0KO8yWZyPrj9VvT6WHc= >
From: Ian D on 11 Mar 2010 14:32 "John Doe" <jdoe(a)usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message news:4b98b9a5$0$14753$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > Paul <nospam needed.com> wrote: > >> Steve Stone wrote: >>> John Doe wrote: > >>>> Since he can buy a wattage meter "Kill-A-Watt" for $20 US, >>>> there is no excuse for any such "technician" to remain >>>> ignorant. If you buy a junk power supply, you might need 500 >>>> W, but you are still going to get a junk power supply that >>>> outputs garbage and could trash your system. >>> >>> Does a power supply that is rated at 500 watts equate to 500 >>> watts input or 500 watts output? > > Rated wattage means little or nothing by itself. You would be > better off thinking about the brand and reputation of the specific > power supply you have in mind. > >> That is a rating of its maximum allowed output. Only as much >> power as the computer needs at the moment, is drawn from the >> wall. > > The amount of power that the whole system needs is drawn from the > wall, Paul. That power measurement at the meter includes power > supply inefficiency. The required power supply output is actually > less than that. > >> If John had a 1000W or a 500W ATX supply, the power meter he is >> using would still read and indicate the 120W number. That is all >> the power that the computer is using at the moment. > > That is all the power that the system is using at the moment, > including the power supply inefficiency. The required power supply > output is actually less than the number measured at the wall, > Paul. > >> Could he use a 120W supply ? > > Of course not, Paul, even if you ignore the "195 W" number I > mentioned. > > By the way... It is more like 112 W when doing stuff like writing a USENET > post. Still a lot of power for writing a USENET post. > >> Since it is difficult to load the multiple outputs in exactly >> the right way, to draw the supply maximum rating number. There >> will always be some overcapacity in the supply you buy > > Sure there will be, Paul, but how much? > > Of course the ignorant fucktards who spew the "500+ W" power > supply bullshit might not really be ignorant, they might be > selling something... > >> All the numbers printed on the power supply label mean >> something, and you should learn what they all mean, to make a >> knowledgeable purchase of a supply. > > Yup. That is what I did years ago when purchasing a 380 W Antec > "TruePower 2" that is currently powering my quad-core gaming > system. > > Besides looking at power supply labels, you should also consider > using inexpensive and readily available tools like the previously > mentioned meter to get a clue about what your system(s) actually > needs. Heck, the cost of the meter is much less than the > cost difference between a silly and reasonable power supply. > -- > > Aside from the total wattage, the more important PSU rating to look at is the +12v rails. The highest power consuming components, the CPU and GPU, run off the +12v rails. PSUs today have large unnecessary capacity. This is because, as the major components moved from the +5v and +3.3v rails to +12v, the +12v capacities were greatly increased, along with the capabilities of the other rails. The motherboard, HDs, RAM, fans, peripheral cards, etc., only use a small portion of the available 5v and 3.3v capacity. The result is that, if you need 350 watts for the +12v components, you end up buying a 600W PSU because there's also another 250W of capacity for the 5v and 3.3v rails in the PSU specs. Since you don't want the 12v rails saturated, you may end up with a 700W PSU safety overhead.
From: John Doe on 11 Mar 2010 15:16 Another ignorant fuckturd... "Ian D" <taurus nowhereatall.com> wrote: > Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:32:39 -0600 > From: "Ian D" <taurus nowhereatall.com> > Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt > References: <4b982cb5$0$24367$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com> <hn9i8m$fid$1 news.eternal-september.org> <hn9r3d$ri3$1 news.eternal-september.org> <4b98b9a5$0$14753$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com> > Subject: Re: When some idiot tells you to buy a 500+ W power supply... > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:32:33 -0500 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 > X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 > Message-ID: <f7ydnXgyVsHK2ATWnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d giganews.com> > Lines: 89 > X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com > X-Trace: sv3-gV5zZ8DMDYWwL7dPd/WzixII4WRiWqOzQfoHh5JgZMBpSUWtDHF5ZdveSoO7qSelfdfYVlzpvjhKY9I!v3DrODOg2yKX8Z+I0zfWLSnyRcprRhVIU+azujS1G8rbRJwnfDtwdTEbtSuuMbjEMbD8kPCdb5jp!aw== > X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com > X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers > X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly > X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 > > > "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message > news:4b98b9a5$0$14753$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com... >> Paul <nospam needed.com> wrote: >> >>> Steve Stone wrote: >>>> John Doe wrote: >> >>>>> Since he can buy a wattage meter "Kill-A-Watt" for $20 US, >>>>> there is no excuse for any such "technician" to remain >>>>> ignorant. If you buy a junk power supply, you might need 500 >>>>> W, but you are still going to get a junk power supply that >>>>> outputs garbage and could trash your system. >>>> >>>> Does a power supply that is rated at 500 watts equate to 500 >>>> watts input or 500 watts output? >> >> Rated wattage means little or nothing by itself. You would be >> better off thinking about the brand and reputation of the specific >> power supply you have in mind. >> >>> That is a rating of its maximum allowed output. Only as much >>> power as the computer needs at the moment, is drawn from the >>> wall. >> >> The amount of power that the whole system needs is drawn from the >> wall, Paul. That power measurement at the meter includes power >> supply inefficiency. The required power supply output is actually >> less than that. >> >>> If John had a 1000W or a 500W ATX supply, the power meter he is >>> using would still read and indicate the 120W number. That is all >>> the power that the computer is using at the moment. >> >> That is all the power that the system is using at the moment, >> including the power supply inefficiency. The required power supply >> output is actually less than the number measured at the wall, >> Paul. >> >>> Could he use a 120W supply ? >> >> Of course not, Paul, even if you ignore the "195 W" number I >> mentioned. >> >> By the way... It is more like 112 W when doing stuff like writing a USENET >> post. Still a lot of power for writing a USENET post. >> >>> Since it is difficult to load the multiple outputs in exactly >>> the right way, to draw the supply maximum rating number. There >>> will always be some overcapacity in the supply you buy >> >> Sure there will be, Paul, but how much? >> >> Of course the ignorant fucktards who spew the "500+ W" power >> supply bullshit might not really be ignorant, they might be >> selling something... >> >>> All the numbers printed on the power supply label mean >>> something, and you should learn what they all mean, to make a >>> knowledgeable purchase of a supply. >> >> Yup. That is what I did years ago when purchasing a 380 W Antec >> "TruePower 2" that is currently powering my quad-core gaming >> system. >> >> Besides looking at power supply labels, you should also consider >> using inexpensive and readily available tools like the previously >> mentioned meter to get a clue about what your system(s) actually >> needs. Heck, the cost of the meter is much less than the >> cost difference between a silly and reasonable power supply. >> -- >> >> > > Aside from the total wattage, the more important PSU rating > to look at is the +12v rails. The highest power consuming > components, the CPU and GPU, run off the +12v rails. PSUs > today have large unnecessary capacity. This is because, as > the major components moved from the +5v and +3.3v rails to > +12v, the +12v capacities were greatly increased, along with > the capabilities of the other rails. The motherboard, HDs, RAM, > fans, peripheral cards, etc., only use a small portion of the > available 5v and 3.3v capacity. The result is that, if you need > 350 watts for the +12v components, you end up buying a 600W > PSU because there's also another 250W of capacity for the 5v > and 3.3v rails in the PSU specs. Since you don't want the 12v > rails saturated, you may end up with a 700W PSU safety overhead. > > > >
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