Where do you want to go tomorrow?
in [Win32 Kernel]
|
Prev: Customized GINA and group policy
Next: turn on INT13Ex
From: Lem on 7 May 2010 19:07 Hector Santos wrote: <snip> > > Check it out yourself. If you have access to a major ISP where you have > a high trunk line backwidth such as a T1 or T3, you will see that the > usenet feed newsgroup listing does not include microsoft.public.* > > If a smaller ISP is showing microsoft.public.*, then they are directly > or indirectly going to Microsoft servers and are MERGING it with the > usenet listing. But they are two different sources of feeds. > <snip> I have no expertise at all in newsgroup management, but just to inject a fact into all of this speculation, Earthlink (which I would characterize as a "major ISP") includes the microsoft.public.* groups on its news servers. Whether it will continue to do so after Microsoft discontinues its support for the newsgroups is, of course, is another story. -- Lem Apollo 11 - 40 years ago: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/40th/index.html
From: John John - MVP on 7 May 2010 20:27 Hector Santos wrote: > John John - MVP wrote: > >> >> >> Hector Santos wrote: >>> Ok, first, the microsoft.public.* newsgroups are not usenet. >> >> Gee, I wonder why Microsoft themselves refer to them as Usenet groups... >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/guide/newsgroupfaq.mspx > > > Unfortunately, another case of Microsoft creating user confusion in this > regard. > > Microsoft.public.* are *not* part of the usenet backbone newsgroup > listing nor backbone stream. > > Check it out yourself. If you have access to a major ISP where you have > a high trunk line backwidth such as a T1 or T3, you will see that the > usenet feed newsgroup listing does not include microsoft.public.* > > If a smaller ISP is showing microsoft.public.*, then they are directly > or indirectly going to Microsoft servers and are MERGING it with the > usenet listing. But they are two different sources of feeds. > >>> #2, you won't have MS server to post, and if you found another, you >>> don't know if Google will be pulling from it or that your Serer will >>> be posting to GOOGLE. >> >> People post to the groups from all kinds of different servers, when >> the Microsoft servers are down these other servers still synchronize >> between themselves without any problem and these folks who post on >> other servers can still post and read without the intermediary of >> Microsoft servers. We have often seen this in the past when outages of >> a few hours or more at the Microsoft servers have happened and some of >> us use other servers to keep on posting, when the Microsoft servers >> come back only line they then "catch-up" and then all the posts show >> up many hours latter on these servers. This is obvious enough when >> you use non Microsoft servers to read the posts in Microsoft groups, >> all kinds of posts which have not made it to the MS servers, or posts >> which have been removed from the MS servers are on the other servers >> for all to see and read. > > All that will change one MS pulls the plug from the wall. > > While you might find another site that keeps the newsgroups and they > still remain relatively active, that is only because the site itself > have become the MAIN source for others to feed into - a large part of > the chain. But those chains that feed off Microsoft only are lost > unless they feed into someone else. The groups are on *many* usenet servers, majors like Giganews as well as small guys like aioe carry them. If these guys refuse to honor the remove group notices the groups will continue to exist on these servers and peerage will continue between any and all who decide to keep on carrying the groups. There is no denying that a majority of the posts originates from the Microsoft servers and that without these servers the groups may or will probably wither and die but the death will not be because Microsoft servers are not there to act as a peerage "hub". John
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 19:43 Lem wrote: > Hector Santos wrote: > <snip> >> >> Check it out yourself. If you have access to a major ISP where you >> have a high trunk line backwidth such as a T1 or T3, you will see that >> the usenet feed newsgroup listing does not include microsoft.public.* >> >> If a smaller ISP is showing microsoft.public.*, then they are directly >> or indirectly going to Microsoft servers and are MERGING it with the >> usenet listing. But they are two different sources of feeds. >> > <snip> > > I have no expertise at all in newsgroup management, but just to inject a > fact into all of this speculation, Earthlink (which I would characterize > as a "major ISP") includes the microsoft.public.* groups on its news > servers. Whether it will continue to do so after Microsoft discontinues > its support for the newsgroups is, of course, is another story. If you see microsoft.* feeds in your Earthlink ISP NNTP news service, then you they are directly or indirectly getting it from somewhere that provides microsoft.public.* but theses groups are not part of the usenet backbone. There are merged from your view point, as a user of earthlink. For example: If you go to a news server XYZ.COM, and telnet it it on port 119. Telnet xyz.com 119 You might see this: 200 Server Site Name version, posting allowed Type HELP and among the listing, you see the LIST command 100 Legal commands are : article [MessageID|Number] authinfo [user|pass|generic|transact] <data> body [MessageID|Number] check <message-id> date group newsgroup head [MessageID|Number] help ihave <message-id> last list [active|newsgroups[wildmat]|srchfields|searchable|prettynames[wildmat]] listgroup [newsgroup] mode stream|reader newgroups yymmdd hhmmss ["GMT"] [<distributions>] newnews wildmat yymmdd hhmmss ["GMT"] [<distributions>] next post quit search stat [MessageID|number] xhdr header [range|MessageID] xover [range] xpat header range|MessageID pat [morepat ...] xreplic newsgroup/message-number[,newsgroup/message-number...] takethis <message-id> .. If you type LIST NEWSGROUPS you will get the listing of the news groups that is available on that server. Among the list, you will see a MERGE of usenet plus private newsgroups alt.* << - USENET, thousands of these comp.* << - USENET, thousands of these Earthlink.* << - a few of these for EarthLink techncal support microsoft.* << - plus the private Microsoft groups. The listing might stay after MS pulls the plug, but you won't see any new mail unless EarthLink goes to another source (assuming they go directly to microsoft for the news). But that new source might be dependent on getting mail from msnews.microsoft.com. So its like an old telephone listing - call it and no one is there. So the listing might remain, but it will remain quite. EARTHLINK connects to where they get the usenet BACKBONE feeds. They are a big "major" ISP, but there are bigger ones - they pay backbone companies, the Telcos. They are not AT&T, Verizon (formerly, MCI/ UUNET), the guys who own the "wires" - the infrastructure. -- HLS
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 20:31 John John - MVP wrote: > Hector Santos wrote: >> John John - MVP wrote: >> >> All that will change one MS pulls the plug from the wall. >> >> While you might find another site that keeps the newsgroups and they >> still remain relatively active, that is only because the site itself >> have become the MAIN source for others to feed into - a large part of >> the chain. But those chains that feed off Microsoft only are lost >> unless they feed into someone else. > > The groups are on *many* usenet servers, majors like Giganews as well as > small guys like aioe carry them. If these guys refuse to honor the > remove group notices the groups will continue to exist on these servers > and peerage will continue between any and all who decide to keep on > carrying the groups. There is no denying that a majority of the posts > originates from the Microsoft servers and that without these servers the > groups may or will probably wither and die but the death will not be > because Microsoft servers are not there to act as a peerage "hub". Right, the death will be relative to the users of where they decide to reconnect. The fact is that many sites and end users use msnews.microsoft.com as their site feed and now they will need to go to other sites. The issue is that those other sites might also had been using Microsoft. So sure, they will need to change to new site so that a link won't be broken. As long as there remain a common list of newsgroups available, and it includes microsoft.*, its all good as far as getting it going. -- HLS
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 20:44
Just wish to note the actually Live ID authentication process is internally done over SSL. Hector Santos wrote: > Yes, I did noticed that, and AFAICT, the REST requests are all HTTP. > > Note: the correct url is: > http://services.social.microsoft.com/forumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc > > This is a primitive 3rd party program. The author seems to be new at > communications requirements. It uses the Live ID Framework Client SDK > for this. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb404791.aspx > > And it comes with a C# example illustrating the authentication. > > For me, since my live id account is a junk account anyway, I don't worry > about it - although they are beginning to force me to use it more now. > -- HLS |