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From: Tom Roberts on 12 Aug 2010 00:21
Hikaru Yamoshi wrote:
> On Aug 9, 6:55 am, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Yes, the LHC uses as much electrical power as a small town, yes there are two
>> powerful beams rotating in opposite directions pointed against each other, yes
>> their collisions create a lot of debris, yes the energy of the beams is
>> comparable to the energy of a high-speed-train, and yes the energy of the debris
>> is MUCH lower than the energy input to the LHC.
>
> thank you Sir, but what do you mean by debris
> atoms debris or subatomic particles?

debris was not my term, I was mimicking an earlier post. When two protons
interact strongly at LHC energies there are on average hundreds of secondary
particles produced. As the protons themselves are subatomic, these would be
considered subatomic particles -- while both secondary protons and secondary
electrons are produced, the likelihood of them being close enough in velocity to
become bound as a hydrogen atom is incredibly tiny and completely negligible.


> where is this debris coming from into the system, is suppose to be
> nearly perfect vacuum in there, right?

It is produced by the collisions. After all, studying those collisions and their
secondary particles is why the LHC was constructed.


>> You need to learn how a particle accelerator like the LHC works. It is a
>> synchrotron, which means that energy is put into the beam by radio-frequency
>
> i knew they do beginner mistakes, they confuse _inductive coupling_
> with RF, a very common mistake, see RFID passive tags for instance
> it has nothing with to do with RF,

You need to learn how a particle accelerator works. RFID tags are COMPLETELY
different. The accelerating mecahnism in the LHC is RF cavities, as I said. Your
claims are COMPLETELY wrong, and the acceleration of the beam has EVERYTHING to
do with RF.


>> During acceleration the RF timing is such
>> that energy is put into the beam. During deceleration the timing of the RF
>> cavities is arranged so energy is extracted from the beam, and this energy heats
>> the RF components, and some of it ultimately gets fed back into the power grid.
>
> yes, this is what it called inductive coupling

No, it is not. Inductive coupling is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. This is direct
coupling of an electric field to charged particles.


> [... further completely incorrect claims]

Until you learn how particle accelerators ACTUALLY work you will remain confused.


Tom Roberts
From: dlzc on 12 Aug 2010 10:10
Dear Tom Roberts:

On Aug 11, 9:21 pm, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hikaru Yamoshi wrote:
> > On Aug 9, 6:55 am, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
....
> >> You need to learn how a particle accelerator
> >> like the LHC works. It is a synchrotron, which
> >> means that energy is put into the beam by
> >> radio-frequency
>
> > i knew they do beginner mistakes, they confuse
> > _inductive coupling_ with RF, a very common
> > mistake, see RFID passive tags for instance
> > it has nothing with to do with RF,
>
> You need to learn how a particle accelerator
> works. RFID tags are COMPLETELY different. The
> accelerating mecahnism in the LHC is RF cavities,
> as I said. Your claims are COMPLETELY wrong, and
> the acceleration of the beam has EVERYTHING to
> do with RF.

Atomic tweezers (as I understand it) use photons, first to induce a
magnetic moment in latex balls (or whatever), then to manipulate the
position of those balls. Is this remotely similar to how the LHC
works (except that no excitation to a macroscopic magnetic moment
would be required)?

David A. Smith
From: Thomas Heger on 12 Aug 2010 10:38
Tom Roberts schrieb:
> Hikaru Yamoshi wrote:
>> On Aug 9, 6:55 am, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Yes, the LHC uses as much electrical power as a small town, yes there
>>> are two
>>> powerful beams rotating in opposite directions pointed against each
>>> other, yes
>>> their collisions create a lot of debris, yes the energy of the beams is
>>> comparable to the energy of a high-speed-train, and yes the energy of
>>> the debris
>>> is MUCH lower than the energy input to the LHC.
>>
>> thank you Sir, but what do you mean by debris
>> atoms debris or subatomic particles?
>
> debris was not my term, I was mimicking an earlier post.
Yes, it was my term. I used it to illustrate a picture. Imagine the beam
would be a fluid, that the 'debris' is, what is split off, due to collision.
This 'debris' is apparently taken from the stream, that is the beam.
Since what is created in collision is somehow random, the remaining beam
should get discontinuous through the collisions.
So the beam has a substream, that has actually a frequency.
Since one beam is actually a HUGE coil, that substream would induce
energy into some point .
Since the other beam does exactly the opposite, that energy induced gets
stuck into some point, where it gathers more and more energy.
This I regard as very dangerous side-effect and would like the CERN guys
to check, if something strange is happening in the center of the ring.

TH
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