Which usb-sata/eide adaptor?
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From: Paul on 29 May 2010 15:05 spamlet wrote: > Hi Peter, thanks for the response. > > Yes, those are other ways of doing this, but it does seem that a USB adaptor > that would take the various drives without needing to buy enclosures for > each, would be handy - especially as this would also make cheap offdesk > storage/backup easier. > > Do the external EIDE cases have their own power supply? > > Getting off topic a bit but as you raised the issue: I'm having trouble > establishing what drives I can actually use. The Dell Laptop Inspiron 2600 > (XP Home SP3), is said on a Dell forum to only be capable of recognising > drives up to 80 gig - but I see plenty of bigger ones on offer? > > The desktop is also a Dell (Optiplex GX270 XPPro SP3 ) and does seem to > have a sata connector going spare, but again, when I made enquiries on a > Dell forum they also said there were limits to the capacity of drive that > would recognise as well. So I've been a long time getting round to making > the upgrades as there seems to be one view that pretty well anything with > the right connector will work, and another that each computer has its own > limits. It is all rather confusing, so if you have any further experience > to share on this I would be grateful. > > Cheers, > > S The Inspiron 2600 uses an Intel 830MG chipset. http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins2600/en/sm_en/specs.htm You can find the 830MG mentioned in here. This document addresses the 137GB capacity limit, causes by computers not fully supporting 48 bit LBA addressing mode. http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf If you wanted to remain "safe and issue free", you could purchase a 120 GB laptop IDE drive or smaller. Or, buy one larger in capacity than that, and see whether there are any BIOS issues or not. The Seagate document, mentions workarounds of one sort and another, for issues other than the BIOS response. The basic mechanism, of how 48 bit LBA mode was supported, is described in this technical proposal from long ago. This describes how the IDE registers were "double pumped", to allow passing larger addresses. It isn't much of an explanation as such, but shows how a 28 bit address would be supported, versus a 48 bit address. Just read the first couple pages, to get some idea. http://www.t10.org/t13/technical/e00101r6.pdf ******* The Optiplex GX270 is 865G/ICH5, and I wouldn't expect an issue with that with regard to the SATA port. http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx270/en/ug/specs.htm An example of a SATA port with a capacity issue, was with motherboards using a Silicon Image SIL3112. Connecting a 1TB drive to the onboard SIL3112, caused the system to freeze in the BIOS. There are few other issues with SATA. A number of VIA chipsets, have an issue with 3Gbit/sec versus 1.5Gbit/sec operation of the SATA cable. Using the "Force150" jumper on the SATA drive fixes that. Your GX270 doesn't use a VIA chipset, so no issue there. Sometimes, you might need a power adapter cable, if your computer lacks the proper connector to power the SATA drive. Example here. You also need a SATA data cable, if one isn't already in the computer. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201002 Paul > > "peter" <peter(a)nowhere.net> wrote in message > news:3A349EA4-D139-4356-AA19-7450077CE2CB(a)microsoft.com... >> why would you need one. >> I am sure your desktop PC has 2 internal SATA connectors buy a new SATA >> drive >> hook it up and clone the old drive to the new. >> As for the Laptop buy an EIDE drive and an external HD case which connects >> the HD internally with EIDE pins but connects to your Laptop externally >> with USB. >> ????? >> >> peter >> >> -- >> If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate >> or disruptive,please ignore it. >> If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain >> to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :-) >> >> >> "spamlet" <spam.morespam(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> news:OFdikMz$KHA.1700(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace >>> drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide) >>> - and a desktop pc (sata) >>> >>> The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling' >>> for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many >>> different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are >>> warnings >>> from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can >>> corrupt >>> data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of >>> unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is >>> used, >>> but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the >>> other thread is not proving to be as >>> straight forward as expected. >>> >>> Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and >>> safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> S >>> >>> > >
From: spamlet on 29 May 2010 18:13 "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:htroh3$558$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > spamlet wrote: >> Hi Peter, thanks for the response. >> >> Yes, those are other ways of doing this, but it does seem that a USB >> adaptor that would take the various drives without needing to buy >> enclosures for each, would be handy - especially as this would also make >> cheap offdesk storage/backup easier. >> >> Do the external EIDE cases have their own power supply? >> >> Getting off topic a bit but as you raised the issue: I'm having trouble >> establishing what drives I can actually use. The Dell Laptop Inspiron >> 2600 (XP Home SP3), is said on a Dell forum to only be capable of >> recognising drives up to 80 gig - but I see plenty of bigger ones on >> offer? >> >> The desktop is also a Dell (Optiplex GX270 XPPro SP3 ) and does seem to >> have a sata connector going spare, but again, when I made enquiries on a >> Dell forum they also said there were limits to the capacity of drive that >> would recognise as well. So I've been a long time getting round to >> making the upgrades as there seems to be one view that pretty well >> anything with the right connector will work, and another that each >> computer has its own limits. It is all rather confusing, so if you have >> any further experience to share on this I would be grateful. >> >> Cheers, >> >> S > > The Inspiron 2600 uses an Intel 830MG chipset. > > http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins2600/en/sm_en/specs.htm > > You can find the 830MG mentioned in here. This document addresses the > 137GB > capacity limit, causes by computers not fully supporting 48 bit LBA > addressing > mode. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf > > If you wanted to remain "safe and issue free", you could purchase a 120 GB > laptop IDE drive or smaller. Or, buy one larger in capacity than that, and > see > whether there are any BIOS issues or not. The Seagate document, mentions > workarounds of one sort and another, for issues other than the BIOS > response. > > The basic mechanism, of how 48 bit LBA mode was supported, is described in > this > technical proposal from long ago. This describes how the IDE registers > were > "double pumped", to allow passing larger addresses. It isn't much of an > explanation as such, but shows how a 28 bit address would be supported, > versus a 48 bit address. Just read the first couple pages, to get some > idea. > > http://www.t10.org/t13/technical/e00101r6.pdf > > ******* > > The Optiplex GX270 is 865G/ICH5, and I wouldn't expect an issue with that > with regard to the SATA port. > > http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx270/en/ug/specs.htm > > An example of a SATA port with a capacity issue, was with motherboards > using a Silicon Image SIL3112. Connecting a 1TB drive to the onboard > SIL3112, caused the system to freeze in the BIOS. There are few other > issues with SATA. > > A number of VIA chipsets, have an issue with 3Gbit/sec versus 1.5Gbit/sec > operation of the SATA cable. Using the "Force150" jumper on the SATA drive > fixes that. Your GX270 doesn't use a VIA chipset, so no issue there. > > Sometimes, you might need a power adapter cable, if your computer lacks > the proper connector to power the SATA drive. Example here. You also > need a SATA data cable, if one isn't already in the computer. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201002 > > Paul Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding all this information for me. The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up to date then this capacity issue will not apply. However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to date with XP? The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this true. It seems the more I look into this the more caveats I find! Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your reply. Cheers, S >> >> "peter" <peter(a)nowhere.net> wrote in message >> news:3A349EA4-D139-4356-AA19-7450077CE2CB(a)microsoft.com... >>> why would you need one. >>> I am sure your desktop PC has 2 internal SATA connectors buy a new SATA >>> drive >>> hook it up and clone the old drive to the new. >>> As for the Laptop buy an EIDE drive and an external HD case which >>> connects >>> the HD internally with EIDE pins but connects to your Laptop externally >>> with USB. >>> ????? >>> >>> peter >>> >>> -- >>> If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate >>> or disruptive,please ignore it. >>> If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain >>> to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :-) >>> >>> >>> "spamlet" <spam.morespam(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:OFdikMz$KHA.1700(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to >>>> replace drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide) >>>> - and a desktop pc (sata) >>>> >>>> The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after >>>> 'googling' >>>> for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many >>>> different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are >>>> warnings >>>> from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can >>>> corrupt >>>> data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of >>>> unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is >>>> used, >>>> but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in >>>> the other thread is not proving to be as >>>> straight forward as expected. >>>> >>>> Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable >>>> and >>>> safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> S >>>> >>>> >>
From: Paul on 29 May 2010 21:10 spamlet wrote: > > > Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding all > this information for me. > > The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up to > date then this capacity issue will not apply. > > However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is > mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update available > as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure whether this means > I should try to obtain that as well as being up to date with XP? > > > The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for a > SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside from the > alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum that to image > a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I image my 40 gig > drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this true. It seems > the more I look into this the more caveats I find! > > Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your reply. > > Cheers, > S For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports. Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS should be a bit more complicated. The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly different driver is used, but if you're already running a recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there. The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like making a backup. Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication, for your currently planned cloning attempts. In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there. I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave, if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one (to stay under 137GB). Actually, the drive with the best ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129 Paul
From: spamlet on 30 May 2010 23:30 "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:htsduf$uk0$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > spamlet wrote: > >> >> >> Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding >> all this information for me. >> >> The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up >> to date then this capacity issue will not apply. >> >> However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is >> mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update >> available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure >> whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to >> date with XP? >> >> >> The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for >> a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside >> from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum >> that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I >> image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this >> true. It seems the more I look into this the more caveats I find! >> >> Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your >> reply. >> >> Cheers, >> S > > For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported > in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports. > > Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA > drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage > of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not > have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places > for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting > may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even > already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention > it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard > has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS > should be a bit more complicated. > > The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the > interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly > different driver is used, but if you're already running a > recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there. > > The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt > anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect > the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new > drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the > original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not > like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like > making a backup. > > Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or > "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver > on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are > sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in > that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As > far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication, > for your currently planned cloning attempts. > > In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive > copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least > one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there. > > I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave, > if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need > the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one > (to stay under 137GB). Actually, the drive with the best > ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is > an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129 > > Paul Thank you very much Paul, you are giving me a lot more confidence: I'll give them a try. Cheers, S
From: spamlet on 4 Jun 2010 14:45
"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:htsduf$uk0$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > spamlet wrote: > >> >> >> Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding >> all this information for me. >> >> The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up >> to date then this capacity issue will not apply. >> >> However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is >> mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update >> available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure >> whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to >> date with XP? >> >> >> The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for >> a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside >> from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum >> that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I >> image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this >> true. It seems the more I look into this the more caveats I find! >> >> Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your >> reply. >> >> Cheers, >> S > > For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported > in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports. > > Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA > drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage > of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not > have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places > for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting > may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even > already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention > it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard > has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS > should be a bit more complicated. > > The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the > interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly > different driver is used, but if you're already running a > recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there. > > The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt > anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect > the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new > drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the > original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not > like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like > making a backup. > > Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or > "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver > on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are > sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in > that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As > far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication, > for your currently planned cloning attempts. > > In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive > copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least > one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there. > > I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave, > if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need > the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one > (to stay under 137GB). Actually, the drive with the best > ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is > an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129 > > Paul Right, I've got myself a WD 80gig drive for the laptop as you recommended, and got a usb enclosure to go with it. From the thread on fitting new drives, I got the address for the WD version of Acronis, and downloaded it, but it won't complete its install unless I have a WD drive fitted! The drive only shows as a generic USB drive in device manager, so I guess that is why WD think I don't have a WD drive fitted. Have I been sold a fake drive (It only shows as 76gig), or is this just WD being silly in assuming people will never install via usb? Cheers, S |