Why are a number of the newsgroups disappearing?
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From: Ken Blake, MVP on 18 Jul 2010 20:32 On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:11:17 -0500, milt <theatreguy_dunspam_(a)miltsweb.com> wrote: > On 7/18/2010 3:42 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote: > > Several points: > > > > 1. Although Microsoft is shutting down the newsgroups on *their* news > > servers, that does not mean the newsgroups cease to exist. They > > continue to be available on the many other news servers around the > > world that echoes them. Here are three free ones where they can be > > found: > > > > aioe.org > > new.eternal-september.org > > news.albasani.net > > > > The volume of posts has decreased and will very likely continue to > > decrease, but that's not the same as the newsgroups disappearing. > > > I just checked eternal-september (been using it for months) and they do > NOT seem to carry any of the microsoft.public.* hierarchy. I can't tell you why you can't find them, but they *do* carry them. > I don't know > about aioe.org or news.albasani.net > > > > 2. Microsoft has replaced the newsgroups with web-based forums. As far > > as I'm concerned, they are greatly inferior to the newsgroups, but at > > least there is something. > > > > Greatly inferior and you trade trolls for tons of repetitive posts you > can't filter out to get to anything useful. I'm with you entirely. I think Microsoft made a terrible mistake in doing this. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 Please Reply to the Newsgroup
From: Ken Blake, MVP on 18 Jul 2010 20:34 On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:54:03 -0500, milt <theatreguy_dunspam_(a)miltsweb.com> wrote: > On 7/17/2010 4:43 AM, sheana wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I subscribe to a number of MS newsgroups, but, for example, when I > > clicked on the newsgroup for word.general I got a message that that > > newsgroup was not available from the MS server. Is MS phasing out the > > communities/newsgroups? Let me know, because I find them incredibly > > helpful. Thanks in advance. > > Because Microsoft is lame and getting rid of newsgroup support and > instead trying to force people to their lame forums. Yes, many find them > helpful but MS doesn't care. Despite what I said in reply to your previous message, I don't at all agree with you here. I think Microsoft did this because they mistakenly thought this was a change that was better for their customers. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 Please Reply to the Newsgroup
From: Jason S on 18 Jul 2010 22:36 milt <theatreguy_dunspam_(a)miltsweb.com> wrote: > Because Microsoft is lame and getting rid of newsgroup support and > instead trying to force people to their lame forums. Yes, many find > them helpful but MS doesn't care. Its unfortunate really. I'm actually new to usenet and find these and many other newsgroups to be quite helpful. Its a shame that usenet is losing popularity. I enjoy the services it has to offer. -- Jason
From: VanguardLH on 19 Jul 2010 00:14 John McGaw wrote: > sheana wrote: > >> I subscribe to a number of MS newsgroups, but, for example, when I >> clicked on the newsgroup for word.general I got a message that that >> newsgroup was not available from the MS server. Is MS phasing out the >> communities/newsgroups? Let me know, because I find them incredibly >> helpful. Thanks in advance. > > MS has announced the shutdown multiple times in every one of their > newsgroups AFAIK. Yes, they are shutting down. A little bit annoying but at > least it will kill the trolls... Selecting an option to ask to inform on a "bad" post is NOT the same as moderation. Moderation is something that is *current* and active by someone monitoring the forum every day and usually incorporates multiple admins/moderators to check several times per day and at different times. Reporting bad posts is NOT monitoring. That's retroactive correction. Suturing a wound doesn't eliminate that the wound happened. You think a noob visiting a web-based forum that is inundated with repeated garbage posts cares that the forum becomes usable some hours later after corrective action is performed? Also, the only way to ban a poster who is considered a troll, malicious user, or other undesirable (per Microsoft's policy such as it is) would be by their IP address. Yet dial-up users get a different IP address everytime they get a Internet connection from their ISP. Trolls can easily bypass IP blocks by using yet another publicly accessible anonymizing proxy server (or even setup their own farm of hosts and there are even "ghost" services with worlwide farms of proxies). It is possible to update an IP block list with the IP addresses of these proxies but not all are published anywhere to provide an easy means of discovering them. Trolls will still survive. What you end up in the forums because of the extra measures involved in surviving there are trolls that actually behave in the true definition of such. Trolls are NOT obvious to new users! They don't appear as malcontents, foul-mouthed, peurile ranting SOBs. They aren't obvious in starting a flame war but prefer to introduce the topic, flame it just enough, and then let the regulars flail away at each other. They pretend to offer help (which could be worthless or even malicious) or they waste your time leading you along a line of questioning on a bogus problem to feed off your want to help. Being a web-based forum will not eliminate trolls. There are some folks that are very good at trolling. We have a troll here that asks a barrage of questions, usually across multiple replies (to deepen the subthread depth) regarding versions and setup details which is often not required to actually start providing help along with pushing noobs without their permission to a different group than where they asked their question. Regulars know his modus operandi but not the noobs trying to get help. To be a real troll means not being obvious about it. It usually takes some history of participating regularly in a forum to recognize the repeated behavior of a devious troll. Alas, the filtering you have available in a newsreader is not available when using Microsoft's inane web-based forums. Since there is no fee to participate and since there is no real or verified credentials involved in registering to use the web-based forums, just what loss is incurred by a troll who gets ousted from posting in the forums? Moderation requires punishment and it must be immediate to be effective. If they get their current moniker or IP address banned, gee, like they surely have no means of generating a new moniker or acquiring a different IP address, uh nuh, for sure (rolls eyes). "/Trolling/ for suckers" isn't eliminated because you visit a web-based forum. Please don't confuse spam with trolling. Spamming was and is minimal in the microsoft.public.* newsgroups, especially if you eliminated Google Groupers and some Usenet leeching web sites pretending to offer forums via a gateway to Usenet. You think with the users getting pushed to Microsoft's web-based forums that the trolls who inhabited those newsgroups won't also migrate to the forums? Uh huh, sure, if that's what it takes to make you feel fuzzy comfy.
From: Uke A. Liptus on 19 Jul 2010 08:46
It doesn't matter what you use. Since there is very little posting and replying going on to the MS public newsgroups, changing servers doesn't matter. When they're dead, they're dead. Oh, and read the instructions about getting the newsgroups on ES web. It explains about how you must use your password. "sheana" <sheana(a)nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:47A5E329-45B0-4257-ADC6-C9EE38E44205(a)microsoft.com... :I signed up for eternal-september, and when I got a list of their available : newsgroups, I didn't see anything relating to MS products. I put configured : my eternal-september account with the user id and pw they sent me, which : they said was necessary to view all available newsgroups. : : I took a look at albasani, and used their contact form to request an : account. So I'll have to wait on that. : : But how do I find the Microsoft groups on eternal-september? : : Which NNTP server are most of the MVP's migrating to? : : Thanks in advance, : : sheana : : "VanguardLH" <V(a)nguard.LH> wrote in message : news:i1sgoa$mp2$1(a)news.albasani.net... : > sheana wrote: : > : >> I subscribe to a number of MS newsgroups, but, for example, when I : >> clicked : >> on the newsgroup for word.general I got a message that that newsgroup was : >> not available from the MS server. Is MS phasing out the : >> communities/newsgroups? Let me know, because I find them incredibly : >> helpful. : >> Thanks in advance. : > : > Stop using Microsoft's NNTP server. Microsoft is abandoning their : > 4-year experiment to attempt usurping the 30-year old Usenet. Connect : > your newsreader (Outlook Express) to another NNTP server. Many are : > free, like albasani and eternal-september, and some are very cheap, like : > individual.net ($16USD/yr). Netiner Usenet or the microsoft.public.* : > newsgroups are disappearing. It's Microsoft that's leaving Usenet. : |