Why no PCs w/SATA-600 yet?
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From: Christopher Muto on 21 Jul 2010 11:38 Timothy Daniels wrote: > "Christopher Muto" responded: >> Timothy Daniels wrote: >>> SATA-600 hard drives are now on the market, as are >>> PCIE adapter cards for them. Even Gigabyte has a >>> motherboard with onboard SATA-600. I'm itching to >>> buy a new desktop PC with that feature, but no PCs >>> have it, yet, including Dell. Does anyone here have any >>> insight as to why? Or have you heard when it might >>> become available as an onboard feature? >>> >>> *TimDaniels* >> i think the answer is that sata and certainly sata ii is still faster than what conventional hard disks can deliver. >> the new sata 600 (or sata 3) appears to be only useful for sold state drives which are still relatively expensive and >> not available in very large drive sizes. > > The July PCWorld (one issue ago) did a review of WD's Velociraptor > (a SATA-600 HD with 10,000 rpm rotational speed), and they compared > it with a WD SATA-300 Caviar Green (rotational speed somewhere > between 5,400 and 7,200 rpm) in file and folder read-write tests, and they > said it had a "dramatic performance edge of 8 to 17 seconds". How that > is limited by "what conventional hard disks can deliver", I don't know, but > Google reveals that several adapter card manufacturers feel that there will > be a market for people upgrading to SATA-600, and GigaByte feels that > there will be a market for a motherboard with SATA-600 onboard. With > increased areal densities and cache sizes, the actual bus speeds may become > significant and total throughput less limited by seek time delays. The bottom > line is that there will be guys like me who want SATA-600, and why aren't > there PCs available with it built-in? > > *TimDaniels* > > i think you missed my point. considering a 300gb 10k rpm drive that costs about $250 when 500mb drives that cost about $50 are the industry standard in desktop computers today puts you in a very small minority of the market. many people spend that much on the entire computer and are happy surfing the web and doing email. that is not to say that there is no place for new and improved technology, and this one seems to have been done right with full backward compatibility including cables and cable connectors, but there just isn't a motivation for the big box makers to pay an additional penny to include a next generation disk controller when they are going to pair it with conventional (main stream, affordable) hard disks so that they can compete on price in the market. in time that will of course change. and in the mean time you can install a sata 3 controller (when available, i haven't seen any yet other than integrated in the new gigabyte motherboard like you mentioned) in a machine that you want to run sata 3 drives.
From: Timothy Daniels on 21 Jul 2010 13:09 "Christopher Muto" wrote: > Timothy Daniels wrote: >> "Christopher Muto" responded: >>> Timothy Daniels wrote: >>>> SATA-600 hard drives are now on the market, as are >>>> PCIE adapter cards for them. Even Gigabyte has a >>>> motherboard with onboard SATA-600. I'm itching to >>>> buy a new desktop PC with that feature, but no PCs >>>> have it, yet, including Dell. Does anyone here have any >>>> insight as to why? Or have you heard when it might >>>> become available as an onboard feature? >>>> >>>> *TimDaniels* >>> i think the answer is that sata and certainly sata ii is still faster than what conventional hard disks can >>> deliver. the new sata 600 (or sata 3) appears to be only useful for sold state drives which are still relatively >>> expensive and not available in very large drive sizes. >> >> The July PCWorld (one issue ago) did a review of WD's Velociraptor >> (a SATA-600 HD with 10,000 rpm rotational speed), and they compared >> it with a WD SATA-300 Caviar Green (rotational speed somewhere >> between 5,400 and 7,200 rpm) in file and folder read-write tests, and they >> said it had a "dramatic performance edge of 8 to 17 seconds". How that >> is limited by "what conventional hard disks can deliver", I don't know, but >> Google reveals that several adapter card manufacturers feel that there will >> be a market for people upgrading to SATA-600, and GigaByte feels that >> there will be a market for a motherboard with SATA-600 onboard. With >> increased areal densities and cache sizes, the actual bus speeds may become >> significant and total throughput less limited by seek time delays. The bottom >> line is that there will be guys like me who want SATA-600, and why aren't >> there PCs available with it built-in? >> >> *TimDaniels* >> >> > > i think you missed my point. considering a 300gb 10k rpm drive that costs about $250 when 500mb drives that cost > about $50 are the industry standard in desktop computers today puts you in a very small minority of the market. many > people spend that much on the entire computer and are happy surfing the web and doing email. that is not to say that > there is no place for new and improved technology, and this one seems to have been done right with full backward > compatibility including cables and cable connectors, but there just isn't a motivation for the big box makers to pay > an additional penny to include a next generation disk controller when they are going to pair it with conventional > (main stream, affordable) hard disks so that they can compete on price in the market. in time that will of course > change. and in the mean time you can install a sata 3 controller (when available, i haven't seen any yet other than > integrated in the new gigabyte motherboard like you mentioned) in a machine that you want to run sata 3 drives. Try Googling "SATA-600 adapter" and you'll that at least 5 manufacturers are offering SATA-600 adapter cards. A search on "SATA-600 motherboard" reveals that ASUSTech and GigaByte offer motherboards with onboard SATA-600 controllers. And Western Digital and Seagate each offer two or three models of SATA-600 rotational HDs. Maybe this is just for the lunatic performance fringe, but seeing that people are willing to pay even much more for SSD hard drives, I think that there is a viable market out there for say, a workstation with SATA-600 built-in and with the option of RAIDing them. Consider, for one, that Dell is now offering 256GB SATA-600 SSD hard drives made by Crucial Technology and apparently expects to sell them for $799 each: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/solid_state_disk_ssd/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=a3609288 *TimDaniels*
From: Christopher Muto on 21 Jul 2010 17:34 Timothy Daniels wrote: > "Christopher Muto" wrote: >> Timothy Daniels wrote: >>> "Christopher Muto" responded: >>>> Timothy Daniels wrote: >>>>> SATA-600 hard drives are now on the market, as are >>>>> PCIE adapter cards for them. Even Gigabyte has a >>>>> motherboard with onboard SATA-600. I'm itching to >>>>> buy a new desktop PC with that feature, but no PCs >>>>> have it, yet, including Dell. Does anyone here have any >>>>> insight as to why? Or have you heard when it might >>>>> become available as an onboard feature? >>>>> >>>>> *TimDaniels* >>>> i think the answer is that sata and certainly sata ii is still faster than what conventional hard disks can >>>> deliver. the new sata 600 (or sata 3) appears to be only useful for sold state drives which are still relatively >>>> expensive and not available in very large drive sizes. >>> The July PCWorld (one issue ago) did a review of WD's Velociraptor >>> (a SATA-600 HD with 10,000 rpm rotational speed), and they compared >>> it with a WD SATA-300 Caviar Green (rotational speed somewhere >>> between 5,400 and 7,200 rpm) in file and folder read-write tests, and they >>> said it had a "dramatic performance edge of 8 to 17 seconds". How that >>> is limited by "what conventional hard disks can deliver", I don't know, but >>> Google reveals that several adapter card manufacturers feel that there will >>> be a market for people upgrading to SATA-600, and GigaByte feels that >>> there will be a market for a motherboard with SATA-600 onboard. With >>> increased areal densities and cache sizes, the actual bus speeds may become >>> significant and total throughput less limited by seek time delays. The bottom >>> line is that there will be guys like me who want SATA-600, and why aren't >>> there PCs available with it built-in? >>> >>> *TimDaniels* >>> >>> >> i think you missed my point. considering a 300gb 10k rpm drive that costs about $250 when 500mb drives that cost >> about $50 are the industry standard in desktop computers today puts you in a very small minority of the market. many >> people spend that much on the entire computer and are happy surfing the web and doing email. that is not to say that >> there is no place for new and improved technology, and this one seems to have been done right with full backward >> compatibility including cables and cable connectors, but there just isn't a motivation for the big box makers to pay >> an additional penny to include a next generation disk controller when they are going to pair it with conventional >> (main stream, affordable) hard disks so that they can compete on price in the market. in time that will of course >> change. and in the mean time you can install a sata 3 controller (when available, i haven't seen any yet other than >> integrated in the new gigabyte motherboard like you mentioned) in a machine that you want to run sata 3 drives. > > Try Googling "SATA-600 adapter" and you'll that at least 5 manufacturers > are offering SATA-600 adapter cards. A search on "SATA-600 motherboard" > reveals that ASUSTech and GigaByte offer motherboards with onboard > SATA-600 controllers. And Western Digital and Seagate each offer two > or three models of SATA-600 rotational HDs. Maybe this is just for the > lunatic performance fringe, but seeing that people are willing to pay even much > more for SSD hard drives, I think that there is a viable market out there for say, > a workstation with SATA-600 built-in and with the option of RAIDing them. > Consider, for one, that Dell is now offering 256GB SATA-600 SSD hard drives > made by Crucial Technology and apparently expects to sell them for $799 each: > http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/solid_state_disk_ssd/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=a3609288 > > *TimDaniels* > i understand what you are saying, and we agree except on the point as to why the sata 3 controller is not currently available in any of the dell or hp desktops. there is zero motivation for them to include it in basic desktops when the only drives that partially take advantage of the new controllers performance currently cost 10 times the price per gb of what a conventional hard drive costs. and there are no really large sata 3 drives available yet with the capacity that people are hungry for these days. perhaps it will show up in performance workstations or gaming machines soon, and then at some later point down the road in mainstream desktops. i don't know how else to express this point and since this is my third try it will be my last. perhaps someone else can try to communicate it better than me. ps. i believe that a sata 3 drive on a sata ii controller would result in a considerable performance increase. a sata ii drive does not saturate the performance of the controller meaning there is headroom for a faster performing drive. now that would be a worthwhile thing to test and write up... but you won't find it in pcworld, perhaps tomshardware is the place to look. good luck.
From: Christopher Muto on 21 Jul 2010 17:42 Timothy Daniels wrote: > "Christopher Muto" wrote: >> Timothy Daniels wrote: >>> "Christopher Muto" responded: >>>> Timothy Daniels wrote: >>>>> SATA-600 hard drives are now on the market, as are >>>>> PCIE adapter cards for them. Even Gigabyte has a >>>>> motherboard with onboard SATA-600. I'm itching to >>>>> buy a new desktop PC with that feature, but no PCs >>>>> have it, yet, including Dell. Does anyone here have any >>>>> insight as to why? Or have you heard when it might >>>>> become available as an onboard feature? >>>>> >>>>> *TimDaniels* >>>> i think the answer is that sata and certainly sata ii is still faster than what conventional hard disks can >>>> deliver. the new sata 600 (or sata 3) appears to be only useful for sold state drives which are still relatively >>>> expensive and not available in very large drive sizes. >>> The July PCWorld (one issue ago) did a review of WD's Velociraptor >>> (a SATA-600 HD with 10,000 rpm rotational speed), and they compared >>> it with a WD SATA-300 Caviar Green (rotational speed somewhere >>> between 5,400 and 7,200 rpm) in file and folder read-write tests, and they >>> said it had a "dramatic performance edge of 8 to 17 seconds". How that >>> is limited by "what conventional hard disks can deliver", I don't know, but >>> Google reveals that several adapter card manufacturers feel that there will >>> be a market for people upgrading to SATA-600, and GigaByte feels that >>> there will be a market for a motherboard with SATA-600 onboard. With >>> increased areal densities and cache sizes, the actual bus speeds may become >>> significant and total throughput less limited by seek time delays. The bottom >>> line is that there will be guys like me who want SATA-600, and why aren't >>> there PCs available with it built-in? >>> >>> *TimDaniels* >>> >>> >> i think you missed my point. considering a 300gb 10k rpm drive that costs about $250 when 500mb drives that cost >> about $50 are the industry standard in desktop computers today puts you in a very small minority of the market. many >> people spend that much on the entire computer and are happy surfing the web and doing email. that is not to say that >> there is no place for new and improved technology, and this one seems to have been done right with full backward >> compatibility including cables and cable connectors, but there just isn't a motivation for the big box makers to pay >> an additional penny to include a next generation disk controller when they are going to pair it with conventional >> (main stream, affordable) hard disks so that they can compete on price in the market. in time that will of course >> change. and in the mean time you can install a sata 3 controller (when available, i haven't seen any yet other than >> integrated in the new gigabyte motherboard like you mentioned) in a machine that you want to run sata 3 drives. > > Try Googling "SATA-600 adapter" and you'll that at least 5 manufacturers > are offering SATA-600 adapter cards. A search on "SATA-600 motherboard" > reveals that ASUSTech and GigaByte offer motherboards with onboard > SATA-600 controllers. And Western Digital and Seagate each offer two > or three models of SATA-600 rotational HDs. Maybe this is just for the > lunatic performance fringe, but seeing that people are willing to pay even much > more for SSD hard drives, I think that there is a viable market out there for say, > a workstation with SATA-600 built-in and with the option of RAIDing them. > Consider, for one, that Dell is now offering 256GB SATA-600 SSD hard drives > made by Crucial Technology and apparently expects to sell them for $799 each: > http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/solid_state_disk_ssd/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=a3609288 > > *TimDaniels* > > i searched with google as you suggested and found that the reason why i didn't find any controllers before is because the manufacturers are calling them sata 6 cards. which is kind of funny... sata wants the technology to be known as sata 600 and wanted to avoid the label of sata 3.0 which most people seem to be calling it... and now this new sata 6 nomenclature is out there adding more confusion. but it answers your own question... anyone willing to pay 10 times more per gb for the faster performance offered by a sata 3.0 drive will also need to pony up $30 for a controller card. doesn't seem like the $30 is much of a obstacle to prevent you or anyone else from doing this.
From: Timothy Daniels on 22 Jul 2010 00:03
OK, thanks for the perspective. I think I'll wait a couple months to see how the SATA-600 situation evolves. *TimDaniels* |