Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
in [General]
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From: Richard Quadling on 23 Mar 2010 07:53 On 23 March 2010 00:02, Daevid Vincent <daevid(a)daevid.com> wrote: > douche-bags I think this is about the best way to get the wrong attention. Not everyone has a sense of humour like yours. Maybe no one has a sense of humour like yours. Good luck. Richard. -- ----- Richard Quadling "Standing on the shoulders of some very clever giants!" EE : http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_248814.html EE4Free : http://www.experts-exchange.com/becomeAnExpert.jsp Zend Certified Engineer : http://zend.com/zce.php?c=ZEND002498&r=213474731 ZOPA : http://uk.zopa.com/member/RQuadling
From: "Michael A. Peters" on 23 Mar 2010 09:39 Rene Veerman wrote: > > But i've yet to find a way to keep global objects in memory between > http requests, outside $_SESSION, which i believe is just stored to- > and loaded from disk between http requests. You can store sessions in a cache and avoid the disk IO.
From: Tommy Pham on 23 Mar 2010 18:15 On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > > Use the right tool for the right job - PHP is a scripting/interpreted > language, it does not need threading (IMO of course). > > > -- > Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) > > I couldn't agree more. But here's a real life example. Your client has a forum and is using phpbb for their in house use. They also have an in house custom PHP app, integrated with phpbb, built to suit their needs. Now they want to implement some kind of CMS. You come in and implemented a PHP based CMS to integrate into their existing applications. Then you realize something troublesome, you have a performance issue where it could be resolved by implementing thread. What are you going to do? Are you going to say to the client "We seem to have a problem. I suggest we migrate to Java or ASP.Net because threading will resolve the performance issue." Or are you going to spend who knows how long to try find a hack to resolve the issue? What do you think the client's response is when their need for the solution requires a short time frame of, if not immediate, implementation? Regards, Tommy
From: Per Jessen on 23 Mar 2010 18:33 Tommy Pham wrote: > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote:= >> >> Use the right tool for the right job - PHP is a scripting/interprete= d >> language, it does not need threading (IMO of course). >> >> >> -- >> Per Jessen, Z=C3=BCrich (9.4=C2=B0C) >> >> >=20 > I couldn't agree more. But here's a real life example. Your client > has a forum and is using phpbb for their in house use. They also hav= e > an in house custom PHP app, integrated with phpbb, built to suit thei= r > needs. Now they want to implement some kind of CMS. You come in and= > implemented a PHP based CMS to integrate into their existing > applications. Then you realize something troublesome, you have a > performance issue where it could be resolved by implementing thread. > What are you going to do?=20 The standard, mature, experienced answer is - buy a bigger box.=20 [snip] > What do you think the client's response is when their need for the > solution requires a short time frame of, if not immediate, > implementation? There are no immediate solutions to immediate performance problems. If= you have a poor design that restricts your throughput, you can 1) throw= hardware at it or 2) change the design. At some point you'll hit yet another limit with 1), and you are forced back to 2). Somewhere along the line the original designer has presumably left or been made to.=20 /Per --=20 Per Jessen, Z=C3=BCrich (7.5=C2=B0C)
From: Tommy Pham on 23 Mar 2010 19:04
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > Tommy Pham wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>> >>> Use the right tool for the right job - PHP is a scripting/interpreted >>> language, it does not need threading (IMO of course). >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) >>> >>> >> >> I couldn't agree more.  But here's a real life example.  Your client >> has a forum and is using phpbb for their in house use.  They also have >> an in house custom PHP app, integrated with phpbb, built to suit their >> needs.  Now they want to implement some kind of CMS.  You come in and >> implemented a PHP based CMS to integrate into their existing >> applications.  Then you realize something troublesome, you have a >> performance issue where it could be resolved by implementing thread. >> What are you going to do? > > The standard, mature, experienced answer is - buy a bigger box. > The company started small. As their business grows because they have products & services that do not exist in the marketplace, their hardware are already growing along side with it, (load balancers, clusters). So then your solution is buy bigger/more boxes? What if the their server room is filled and already using recent hardware. Their current business needs doesn't need to move to a bigger building. What then? Hire data center's services? What if they want to protect their proprietary break through products and services? What about unnecessary additional total cost of ownership (licenses, power consumption, etc...) for more/bigger boxes, even if they have available space, that could be avoided by just implementing threads? > [snip] >> What do you think the client's response is when their need for the >> solution requires a short time frame of, if not immediate, >> implementation? > > There are no immediate solutions to immediate performance problems.  If > you have a poor design that restricts your throughput, you can 1) throw > hardware at it or 2) change the design.  At some point you'll hit yet > another limit with 1), and you are forced back to 2).  Somewhere along > the line the original designer has presumably left or been made to. > > > /Per > > -- > Per Jessen, Zürich (7.5°C) > If throwing hardware at it won't work because of the above mentioned, then you would change the design right? How long would that take? What if PHP has threads, how long would it take you implement threads with minor changes versus and overhaul of application design, coding, QA, etc... In summary, you're saying that PHP can not grow/evolve with business right? If the company started small and want to use available open source solutions, then grow quickly because of their unique and quality products and services, and become enterprise level with-in a few years, what then? Slow down business growth just so that IT can migrate everything to another language? Of all the enterprise applications I've seen, they used threads. Regards, Tommy |