Will heating the platters beyond curie temp make disk-splicing impossible?
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From: John Larkin on 15 Apr 2010 19:31 On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:15:32 -0700 (PDT), GreenXenon <glucegen1x(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Hi: > >If I heat the platters of my HDD beyond curie point to eliminate the >platters' magnetic properties, will disk-splicing still make it >possible to recover data from those platters? What do you have on these disks that's so important to hide? > >I ask because I read some stuff on the following link: >http://aboutinternet.org.ua/6097final/lib0157.html > >"Under the illusion that they'll have complete protection, many people >burn floppy or hard disks, crush and mangle them, cut them into >pieces, pour acid on them, and otherwise physically manhandle them so >that there's no possible way they could ever be used by another >computer again. Unfortunately, physical destruction of floppy and hard >disks still can't guarantee that your data will be safe, since >government agencies such as the FBI and CIA practice a specialized >technique known as disk splicing." > >"With disk splicing, someone physically rearranges the pieces of a >floppy or hard disk so that it is as close as possible to its original >condition." That's nonsense. John
From: Joel Koltner on 15 Apr 2010 19:50 "John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message news:5a8fs5tou6rga4q8iaela0htcdqio2grm6(a)4ax.com... > That's nonsense. To a large extent, yes, but I think it depends greatly on how much effort one goes to in destroying the media -- a disk that's just been broken into, e.g., a half-dozen pieces is probably well worth putting back together. Sending the platters through a chipper should be pretty effective, I expect. I've been told that during the cold war years intelligence agencies would meticulously splice back together paper documents that had gone through a shredder. But of course all governments have an interest in suggesting their intelligence capabilities are far greater than they really are too. One newer topic in security is "deniable encryption," wherein you purposely setup your encrypted hard drive (or whatever) in a manner that goes no obvious sign whether it's a bunch of encrypyed data or if it's a just a disk full of radom gobbledeegook that you put there when you erased the drive for completely legitimate (e.g., privacy) reasons. Cool idea... I've never encrypted an entire hard drive, but I definitely have used programs like "disk eraser" that fill the drive with random data when I've sold off an old drive, precisely to ensure there wasn't anything of use left. ---Joel
From: John Larkin on 15 Apr 2010 19:50 On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:56:09 -0700 (PDT), GreenXenon <glucegen1x(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Apr 15, 2:43�pm, Tim Watts <t...(a)dionic.net> wrote: >> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:15:32 -0700, GreenXenon <glucege...(a)gmail.com> >> wibbled: >> >> >> >> > Hi: >> >> > If I heat the platters of my HDD beyond curie point to eliminate the >> > platters' magnetic properties, will disk-splicing still make it possible >> > to recover data from those platters? >> >> > I ask because I read some stuff on the following link: >> >http://aboutinternet.org.ua/6097final/lib0157.html >> >> > "Under the illusion that they'll have complete protection, many people >> > burn floppy or hard disks, crush and mangle them, cut them into pieces, >> > pour acid on them, and otherwise physically manhandle them so that >> > there's no possible way they could ever be used by another computer >> > again. Unfortunately, physical destruction of floppy and hard disks >> > still can't guarantee that your data will be safe, since government >> > agencies such as the FBI and CIA practice a specialized technique known >> > as disk splicing." >> >> > "With disk splicing, someone physically rearranges the pieces of a >> > floppy or hard disk so that it is as close as possible to its original >> > condition." >> >> > Scary indeed. >> >> This is the answer: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__AflVDbHKQ >> >> (watch if you enjoy pyro and bad things happening to French made cars) >> >> -- >> Tim Watts >> >> Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. > > >How about cooking the platters directly above the blue flames of a gas >stove? Will that eliminate the magnetic properties of platters and >render disk-splicing useless for recovering data? Dissolve them in acid, dilute it with 1000 gallons of tomato juice, scatter one cup at a time in different rivers, lakes, and oceans. John
From: John Larkin on 15 Apr 2010 20:00 On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:50:12 -0700, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >"John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message >news:5a8fs5tou6rga4q8iaela0htcdqio2grm6(a)4ax.com... >> That's nonsense. > >To a large extent, yes, but I think it depends greatly on how much effort one >goes to in destroying the media -- a disk that's just been broken into, e.g., >a half-dozen pieces is probably well worth putting back together. Older disks could be treated with a magnetic suspension and make the transitions visible in a microscope. I think modern disks are too dense for that. An atomic-force microscope could map the magnetic domains of even a fragment of a disk. > >Sending the platters through a chipper should be pretty effective, I expect. > Yup, turn it into filings. Scatter it along the highway. Toss some into the ocean. Feed some to your cats. >I've been told that during the cold war years intelligence agencies would >meticulously splice back together paper documents that had gone through a >shredder. I believe there is software to do that now, based on scans of the shreds. That technology is used for old crumbled documents like Dead Sea Scroll sorts of things. > >But of course all governments have an interest in suggesting their >intelligence capabilities are far greater than they really are too. > >One newer topic in security is "deniable encryption," wherein you purposely >setup your encrypted hard drive (or whatever) in a manner that goes no obvious >sign whether it's a bunch of encrypyed data or if it's a just a disk full of >radom gobbledeegook that you put there when you erased the drive for >completely legitimate (e.g., privacy) reasons. Cool idea... I've never >encrypted an entire hard drive, but I definitely have used programs like "disk >eraser" that fill the drive with random data when I've sold off an old drive, >precisely to ensure there wasn't anything of use left. A constant stream of them could burn up all the supercomputer arrays the NAS has, and bring down the power grid to boot. One could also XOR into the files all sorts of spurious and silly and contradictory documents. John
From: krw on 15 Apr 2010 21:06
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:00:08 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:50:12 -0700, "Joel Koltner" ><zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message >>news:5a8fs5tou6rga4q8iaela0htcdqio2grm6(a)4ax.com... >>> That's nonsense. >> >>To a large extent, yes, but I think it depends greatly on how much effort one >>goes to in destroying the media -- a disk that's just been broken into, e.g., >>a half-dozen pieces is probably well worth putting back together. > >Older disks could be treated with a magnetic suspension and make the >transitions visible in a microscope. I think modern disks are too >dense for that. An atomic-force microscope could map the magnetic >domains of even a fragment of a disk. Vertical magnetic domains makes this a bit tougher, too. >>Sending the platters through a chipper should be pretty effective, I expect. >> > >Yup, turn it into filings. Scatter it along the highway. Toss some >into the ocean. Feed some to your cats. Stick a gouge into the spinning disk. >>I've been told that during the cold war years intelligence agencies would >>meticulously splice back together paper documents that had gone through a >>shredder. > >I believe there is software to do that now, based on scans of the >shreds. That technology is used for old crumbled documents like Dead >Sea Scroll sorts of things. > >> >>But of course all governments have an interest in suggesting their >>intelligence capabilities are far greater than they really are too. >> >>One newer topic in security is "deniable encryption," wherein you purposely >>setup your encrypted hard drive (or whatever) in a manner that goes no obvious >>sign whether it's a bunch of encrypyed data or if it's a just a disk full of >>radom gobbledeegook that you put there when you erased the drive for >>completely legitimate (e.g., privacy) reasons. Cool idea... I've never >>encrypted an entire hard drive, but I definitely have used programs like "disk >>eraser" that fill the drive with random data when I've sold off an old drive, >>precisely to ensure there wasn't anything of use left. Encrypted data has a pretty high entropy. Garbage data isn't likely to look anything like it. >A constant stream of them could burn up all the supercomputer arrays >the NAS has, and bring down the power grid to boot. > >One could also XOR into the files all sorts of spurious and silly and >contradictory documents. Like the Health Care Bill? |