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From: CybrGuy on 30 Jan 2010 13:06
On 1/29/2010 5:18 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:21:53 -0600, CybrGuy<none(a)none.inv> wrote:
>
>> On 1/29/2010 1:12 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:47:32 -0600, CybrGuy<none(a)none.inv> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there any reason to believe that Win7 XP mode would be any better at
>>>> dealing with an XP 32bit driver than Virtualbox or other third party VM
>>>> on a 64bit system?
>>>>
>>>> I have Win7 HP 64bit and I want to use an older Palm Tungsten E with it.
>>>> There are no 64bit USB drivers for Win7 for this palm from the
>>>> manufacturer and they don't intend to create any. I tried installing
>>>> XPP (32) in a VB VM and the palm driver would not install. I was
>>>> wondering if "XP Mode" in Win7 would be likely to fare better. I would
>>>> just try it myself, but Win7HP won't run in "XP Mode".
>>>
>>> I have used VMWare Workstation 6 and 7 and VMWare Player 2 and 3.
>>> All work with USB devices very well (I am assuming that when you talk
>>> about Palm Tungsten it is some kind of gadget that attaches via USB).
>>> What I have used (without issues) so far is:
>>> - Safenet SuperPro software protection dongle
>>> - Memory sticks
>>> - USB connected hard drives
>>> - 3G Mobile Internet modems
>>> - Printers
>>> They "just work" when you connect them to the host when the virtual
>>> machine is running and has focus. They appear in the guest as a new or
>>> recognized device.
>>>
>>> I think you will not have any problems with say Player 3 in this
>>> respect.
>>
>> USB devices work fine in the VM if they have a driver or if a generic
>> Win7 one will suffice. There doesn't seem to be one for this device and
>> generic ones aren't working. If you think the problem is the VM I am
>> using rather than a real hardware incompatibility that will likely
>> transcend the VM, I will try a different one.
>
> What I am trying to say is that USB support on Microsoft
> virtualization is strictly limited to WinVPC on Windows 7 with VT
> support. I have no idea how good it is, though, because I don't have
> the required hardware to test it on.
>
> But what I am actually saying is that USB support on VMWare virtual
> machines is very good indeed, I have had zero problems with these.
> And to top it off, VMWare can convert a VirtualPC virtual machine to
> work with their software, so you can convert the one you have already
> created and it will now run on VMWare. Of course with USB support. :-)
> In fact they have a free download converter tha can convert a physical
> windows PC to a virtual machine and adjust the hardware according to
> the differences to the virtual environment! I have used it recently on
> two physical systems that were going to be decommissioned but where we
> needed to keep the running systems for backup purposes. Worked like a
> charm!
>
> And please note that the host system (Win7-x64) is not involved at all
> concerning the drivers for your device, the USB device is simply
> channeled by VMWare from the host over to the guest where it appears
> just like it had been plugged into the virtual machine itself.

Thanks, Bo. Your last paragraph is the part I was trying to get a
handle on. I needed to understand whether the lack of a 64bit driver on
the host would be the overriding controlling factor over whether ANY VM
could get access to the device. That paragraph, and the comment from
Steve Jain that I should look at the VM as 'merely' a container rather
than a controller, finally drove it home for me.
I decided to try a different VM, and chose VMWare player for it's
versatility and the potential of using the physical PC converter. It
*worked* and I now have access to the Palm in the VM. While I like
VirtualBox, I can certainly get used to VMWare. Thank you both for
your help.

From: Bill Grant on 30 Jan 2010 17:14


"CybrGuy" <none(a)none.inv> wrote in message
news:enXzubdoKHA.1548(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> On 1/29/2010 5:18 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:21:53 -0600, CybrGuy<none(a)none.inv> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/29/2010 1:12 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:47:32 -0600, CybrGuy<none(a)none.inv> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there any reason to believe that Win7 XP mode would be any better
>>>>> at
>>>>> dealing with an XP 32bit driver than Virtualbox or other third party
>>>>> VM
>>>>> on a 64bit system?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have Win7 HP 64bit and I want to use an older Palm Tungsten E with
>>>>> it.
>>>>> There are no 64bit USB drivers for Win7 for this palm from the
>>>>> manufacturer and they don't intend to create any. I tried installing
>>>>> XPP (32) in a VB VM and the palm driver would not install. I was
>>>>> wondering if "XP Mode" in Win7 would be likely to fare better. I
>>>>> would
>>>>> just try it myself, but Win7HP won't run in "XP Mode".
>>>>
>>>> I have used VMWare Workstation 6 and 7 and VMWare Player 2 and 3.
>>>> All work with USB devices very well (I am assuming that when you talk
>>>> about Palm Tungsten it is some kind of gadget that attaches via USB).
>>>> What I have used (without issues) so far is:
>>>> - Safenet SuperPro software protection dongle
>>>> - Memory sticks
>>>> - USB connected hard drives
>>>> - 3G Mobile Internet modems
>>>> - Printers
>>>> They "just work" when you connect them to the host when the virtual
>>>> machine is running and has focus. They appear in the guest as a new or
>>>> recognized device.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will not have any problems with say Player 3 in this
>>>> respect.
>>>
>>> USB devices work fine in the VM if they have a driver or if a generic
>>> Win7 one will suffice. There doesn't seem to be one for this device and
>>> generic ones aren't working. If you think the problem is the VM I am
>>> using rather than a real hardware incompatibility that will likely
>>> transcend the VM, I will try a different one.
>>
>> What I am trying to say is that USB support on Microsoft
>> virtualization is strictly limited to WinVPC on Windows 7 with VT
>> support. I have no idea how good it is, though, because I don't have
>> the required hardware to test it on.
>>
>> But what I am actually saying is that USB support on VMWare virtual
>> machines is very good indeed, I have had zero problems with these.
>> And to top it off, VMWare can convert a VirtualPC virtual machine to
>> work with their software, so you can convert the one you have already
>> created and it will now run on VMWare. Of course with USB support. :-)
>> In fact they have a free download converter tha can convert a physical
>> windows PC to a virtual machine and adjust the hardware according to
>> the differences to the virtual environment! I have used it recently on
>> two physical systems that were going to be decommissioned but where we
>> needed to keep the running systems for backup purposes. Worked like a
>> charm!
>>
>> And please note that the host system (Win7-x64) is not involved at all
>> concerning the drivers for your device, the USB device is simply
>> channeled by VMWare from the host over to the guest where it appears
>> just like it had been plugged into the virtual machine itself.
>
> Thanks, Bo. Your last paragraph is the part I was trying to get a handle
> on. I needed to understand whether the lack of a 64bit driver on the host
> would be the overriding controlling factor over whether ANY VM could get
> access to the device. That paragraph, and the comment from Steve Jain
> that I should look at the VM as 'merely' a container rather than a
> controller, finally drove it home for me.
> I decided to try a different VM, and chose VMWare player for it's
> versatility and the potential of using the physical PC converter. It
> *worked* and I now have access to the Palm in the VM. While I like
> VirtualBox, I can certainly get used to VMWare. Thank you both for your
> help.
>

Now that you understand how it works, have you tried it again in
VirtualBox?


From: CybrGuy on 31 Jan 2010 16:27
On 1/30/2010 4:14 PM, Bill Grant wrote:
>
>
> "CybrGuy" <none(a)none.inv> wrote in message
> news:enXzubdoKHA.1548(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> On 1/29/2010 5:18 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:21:53 -0600, CybrGuy<none(a)none.inv> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/29/2010 1:12 PM, Bo Berglund wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:47:32 -0600, CybrGuy<none(a)none.inv> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any reason to believe that Win7 XP mode would be any
>>>>>> better at
>>>>>> dealing with an XP 32bit driver than Virtualbox or other third
>>>>>> party VM
>>>>>> on a 64bit system?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have Win7 HP 64bit and I want to use an older Palm Tungsten E
>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>> There are no 64bit USB drivers for Win7 for this palm from the
>>>>>> manufacturer and they don't intend to create any. I tried installing
>>>>>> XPP (32) in a VB VM and the palm driver would not install. I was
>>>>>> wondering if "XP Mode" in Win7 would be likely to fare better. I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> just try it myself, but Win7HP won't run in "XP Mode".
>>>>>
>>>>> I have used VMWare Workstation 6 and 7 and VMWare Player 2 and 3.
>>>>> All work with USB devices very well (I am assuming that when you talk
>>>>> about Palm Tungsten it is some kind of gadget that attaches via USB).
>>>>> What I have used (without issues) so far is:
>>>>> - Safenet SuperPro software protection dongle
>>>>> - Memory sticks
>>>>> - USB connected hard drives
>>>>> - 3G Mobile Internet modems
>>>>> - Printers
>>>>> They "just work" when you connect them to the host when the virtual
>>>>> machine is running and has focus. They appear in the guest as a new or
>>>>> recognized device.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you will not have any problems with say Player 3 in this
>>>>> respect.
>>>>
>>>> USB devices work fine in the VM if they have a driver or if a generic
>>>> Win7 one will suffice. There doesn't seem to be one for this device and
>>>> generic ones aren't working. If you think the problem is the VM I am
>>>> using rather than a real hardware incompatibility that will likely
>>>> transcend the VM, I will try a different one.
>>>
>>> What I am trying to say is that USB support on Microsoft
>>> virtualization is strictly limited to WinVPC on Windows 7 with VT
>>> support. I have no idea how good it is, though, because I don't have
>>> the required hardware to test it on.
>>>
>>> But what I am actually saying is that USB support on VMWare virtual
>>> machines is very good indeed, I have had zero problems with these.
>>> And to top it off, VMWare can convert a VirtualPC virtual machine to
>>> work with their software, so you can convert the one you have already
>>> created and it will now run on VMWare. Of course with USB support. :-)
>>> In fact they have a free download converter tha can convert a physical
>>> windows PC to a virtual machine and adjust the hardware according to
>>> the differences to the virtual environment! I have used it recently on
>>> two physical systems that were going to be decommissioned but where we
>>> needed to keep the running systems for backup purposes. Worked like a
>>> charm!
>>>
>>> And please note that the host system (Win7-x64) is not involved at all
>>> concerning the drivers for your device, the USB device is simply
>>> channeled by VMWare from the host over to the guest where it appears
>>> just like it had been plugged into the virtual machine itself.
>>
>> Thanks, Bo. Your last paragraph is the part I was trying to get a
>> handle on. I needed to understand whether the lack of a 64bit driver
>> on the host would be the overriding controlling factor over whether
>> ANY VM could get access to the device. That paragraph, and the comment
>> from Steve Jain that I should look at the VM as 'merely' a container
>> rather than a controller, finally drove it home for me.
>> I decided to try a different VM, and chose VMWare player for it's
>> versatility and the potential of using the physical PC converter. It
>> *worked* and I now have access to the Palm in the VM. While I like
>> VirtualBox, I can certainly get used to VMWare. Thank you both for
>> your help.
>>
>
> Now that you understand how it works, have you tried it again in
> VirtualBox?

No, but I can't imagine why it would work now. The only thing that
changed was my understanding.
While I still have the virtual drives, I have uninstalled VirtualBox for
now. The drives will probably go soon so that I can recover the space
they use, but I will probably hang on to them for a while in case I have
reason to try VB again.

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