a delayed response to String Theory expert - theoretical physicist Michio Kaku
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From: Darwin123 on 8 Aug 2010 20:23 On Aug 8, 4:18 pm, Raymond Yohros <b...(a)birdband.net> wrote: > On Aug 8, 2:42 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Aug 3, 9:49 pm, fitz <zeus...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:> a delayed response to String Theory expert - theoretical physicist > > > Michio Kaku > waves are always traveling and they exist in 3 dimensions. > the confusions comes in terms of properties, harmonics, etc. > properties of matenergy dont count as x-tradimentions. No. You are wrong. Standing waves and traveling waves exist. The words refer to two simple forms of waves. Pluck a violin string. The wave seen on the violin string is usually a standing wave. Look at waves hitting a beach. The waves hitting a beach are generally traveling waves. There are complex mixtures of the two. However, on can not say that all waves are traveling. This doesn't even approximate reality. Waves forms can be expanded using various type of of bases. Once can use a standing wave basis or a traveling wave basis. A standing wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum of two traveling waves. A traveling wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum of two standing waves. However, one can physically demonstrate the separate existence of standing waves and traveling waves.
From: Raymond Yohros on 9 Aug 2010 10:04 On Aug 8, 7:23 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Aug 8, 4:18 pm, Raymond Yohros <b...(a)birdband.net> wrote: > > > On Aug 8, 2:42 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Aug 3, 9:49 pm, fitz <zeus...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:> a delayed response to String Theory expert - theoretical physicist > > > > Michio Kaku > > waves are always traveling and they exist in 3 dimensions. > > the confusions comes in terms of properties, harmonics, etc. > > properties of matenergy dont count as x-tradimentions. > > No. You are wrong. > Standing waves and traveling waves exist. The words refer to two > simple forms of waves. Pluck a violin string. The wave seen on the > violin string is usually a standing wave. Look at waves hitting a > beach. The waves hitting a beach are generally traveling waves. There > are complex mixtures of the two. > However, on can not say that all waves are traveling. This doesn't > even approximate reality. > Waves forms can be expanded using various type of of bases. Once > can use a standing wave basis or a traveling wave basis. A standing > wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum of two traveling > waves. A traveling wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum > of two standing waves. However, one can physically demonstrate the > separate existence of standing waves and traveling waves. > there are 3 types of waves. they all travel but with different geometric motion tranverse and longitudinal: http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html and surface waves like the waves of the sea. regards r.y
From: Darwin123 on 9 Aug 2010 10:42 On Aug 9, 10:04 am, Raymond Yohros <b...(a)birdband.net> wrote: > On Aug 8, 7:23 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 8, 4:18 pm, Raymond Yohros <b...(a)birdband.net> wrote: > > > > On Aug 8, 2:42 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 3, 9:49 pm, fitz <zeus...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:> a delayed response to String Theory expert - theoretical physicist > > > > > Michio Kaku > > > waves are always traveling and they exist in 3 dimensions. > > > the confusions comes in terms of properties, harmonics, etc. > > > properties of matenergy dont count as x-tradimentions. > > > No. You are wrong. > > Standing waves and traveling waves exist. The words refer to two > > simple forms of waves. Pluck a violin string. The wave seen on the > > violin string is usually a standing wave. Look at waves hitting a > > beach. The waves hitting a beach are generally traveling waves. There > > are complex mixtures of the two. > > However, on can not say that all waves are traveling. This doesn't > > even approximate reality. > > Waves forms can be expanded using various type of of bases. Once > > can use a standing wave basis or a traveling wave basis. A standing > > wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum of two traveling > > waves. A traveling wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum > > of two standing waves. However, one can physically demonstrate the > > separate existence of standing waves and traveling waves. > > there are 3 types of waves. they all travel but with different > geometric motion The words "standing" and "traveling" refer to the Stokes vector. The Stokes vector describes the rate and direction along which the energy of a wave propagates. I have no idea how the Stokes vector is described in string theory. However, I know that it is an important concept in studying both classical and quantum mechanical waves. > > tranverse and longitudinal: That refers to polarization, not to the propagation of energy. Standing waves don't propagate energy. However, they have a definite polarization. The polarization states of standing waves and traveling waves are the same. However, traveling waves have a nonzero Stokes vector associated with them that represents the direction that energy is propagating. The total Stokes vector of a standing wave is zero. The energy doesn't travel in a standing wave. The energy stands. > > http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html > > and surface waves like the waves of the sea. > > regards > r.y Your literal statement is wrong. Of course standing waves and traveling wave are different. There is a partial truth to what you are saying. Traveling waves and standing waves are closely related. In a broad sense, they are the same thing. Maybe this is what you meant. However, that is not what you said. I intuit that there is a little confusion on your part. It is not good to talk about very advanced concepts one knows very little of starting with simple concepts one is confused about. Sometimes standing waves are called seiching modes. Seiching modes are different from traveling waves. They present a problem one one tries to carry a container of liquid that is very nearly full. I dont think we should discuss string theory when we cant agree on water waves. http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2006/07/the_best_spillfree_coffe_cup_is_elliptic.html The Best (Spill-free) Coffee Cup is Elliptic How to make a coffee cup that doesn't spill easily when filled to the brim? Walking often sets up resonant sloshing (seiching) that makes it overflow. Of course, adding lids, inward-sloping edges or perforated slosh-baffles solves the problem easily, but at the price of inelegance or making the cup harder to wash. The most elegant approach would be to get rid of the sloshing eigenmode that causes spilling. Do you want to discuss waves in a cup of coffee? I think that may be just as interesting, at this point, as string theory !-)
From: Raymond Yohros on 11 Aug 2010 16:24
On Aug 9, 9:42 am, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Aug 9, 10:04 am, Raymond Yohros <b...(a)birdband.net> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 8, 7:23 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Aug 8, 4:18 pm, Raymond Yohros <b...(a)birdband.net> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 8, 2:42 pm, Darwin123 <drosen0...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 3, 9:49 pm, fitz <zeus...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:> a delayed response to String Theory expert - theoretical physicist > > > > > > Michio Kaku > > > > waves are always traveling and they exist in 3 dimensions. > > > > the confusions comes in terms of properties, harmonics, etc. > > > > properties of matenergy dont count as x-tradimentions. > > > > No. You are wrong. > > > Standing waves and traveling waves exist. The words refer to two > > > simple forms of waves. Pluck a violin string. The wave seen on the > > > violin string is usually a standing wave. Look at waves hitting a > > > beach. The waves hitting a beach are generally traveling waves. There > > > are complex mixtures of the two. > > > However, on can not say that all waves are traveling. This doesn't > > > even approximate reality. > > > Waves forms can be expanded using various type of of bases.. Once > > > can use a standing wave basis or a traveling wave basis. A standing > > > wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum of two traveling > > > waves. A traveling wave can be mathematically decomposed into the sum > > > of two standing waves. However, one can physically demonstrate the > > > separate existence of standing waves and traveling waves. > > > there are 3 types of waves. they all travel but with different > > geometric motion > > The words "standing" and "traveling" refer to the Stokes vector. > The Stokes vector describes the rate and direction along which the > energy of a wave propagates. > I have no idea how the Stokes vector is described in string > theory. However, I know that it is an important concept in studying > both classical and quantum mechanical waves. > > > tranverse and longitudinal: > > That refers to polarization, not to the propagation of energy. > Standing waves don't propagate energy. However, they have a definite > polarization. The polarization states of standing waves and traveling > waves are the same. However, traveling waves have a nonzero Stokes > vector associated with them that represents the direction that energy > is propagating. The total Stokes vector of a standing wave is zero. > The energy doesn't travel in a standing wave. The energy stands. > > >http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html > > > and surface waves like the waves of the sea. > > > regards > > r.y > > Your literal statement is wrong. Of course standing waves and > traveling wave are different. > There is a partial truth to what you are saying. Traveling waves > and standing waves are closely related. In a broad sense, they are the > same thing. Maybe this is what you meant. However, that is not what > you said. I intuit that there is a little confusion on your part. It > is not good to talk about very advanced concepts one knows very little > of starting with simple concepts one is confused about. > Sometimes standing waves are called seiching modes.. Seiching > modes are different from traveling waves. They present a problem one > one tries to carry a container of liquid that is very nearly full. I > dont think we should discuss string theory when we cant agree on > water waves.http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2006/07/the_best_spillfree_coffe_... > The Best (Spill-free) Coffee Cup is Elliptic > How to make a coffee cup that doesn't spill easily when filled to the > brim? Walking often sets up resonant sloshing (seiching) that makes it > overflow. Of course, adding lids, inward-sloping edges or perforated > slosh-baffles solves the problem easily, but at the price of > inelegance or making the cup harder to wash. The most elegant approach > would be to get rid of the sloshing eigenmode that causes spilling. > > Do you want to discuss waves in a cup of coffee? I think that may > be just as interesting, at this point, as string theory !-) waves always travel otherwise we wont hear them or see them. standing waves are not a "type" of wave. it is a phenomenon that can happen when the medium moves in the opposite direction of the wave that is traveling or when two waves totally cancel each other by being perfectly out of phase (same frequency but exact inverse amplitudes) in this case, there is no propagation of energy. string theory its wrong in the sense that its totally blind to experimental observation. it will finally become real when the most basic principles like cymetri, structure and unification are all applied to the concept of featureless strands. i like to talk about coffee. i don't get anywhere without one deeply saturated in the morning. regards r.y |