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From: David Ching on 27 Jun 2010 12:09
"RB" <NoMail(a)NoSpam> wrote in message
news:ekDCvNfFLHA.1272(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I can still access the masm group on newsguy's server (while it is already
> gone on MS.public), does this mean MS is only closing down their server
> and their groups will remain on pay servers?

The question is how many new posts are there after MS closing? If there is
no meaningful traffic, it really doesn't matter that you can still access
the newsgroups (other than to access old messages, of course).

-- David

From: RB on 27 Jun 2010 16:12
Make me wonder how can another server access the mfc group if that
groups original server is shutdown ? Is this a case of the barndoor open ?
I mean if I (thru newsguy's server) am posting and getting replies from
masm after masm's server is shutdown, I don't really understand all of that.
From: Bo Persson on 27 Jun 2010 16:44
RB wrote:
> Make me wonder how can another server access the mfc group if that
> groups original server is shutdown ? Is this a case of the
> barndoor open ? I mean if I (thru newsguy's server) am posting and
> getting replies from masm after masm's server is shutdown, I don't
> really understand all of that.

A news group isn't hosted on a single server, it exits by means of a
lot of servers mirroring each other. As long as these servers continue
the mirroring, the group exists.

I have never posted through the MS servers. :-)


Bo Persson


From: RB on 27 Jun 2010 19:09

> A news group isn't hosted on a single server, it exits by means of a
> lot of servers mirroring each other. As long as these servers continue
> the mirroring, the group exists.
> I have never posted through the MS servers. :-)
> Bo Persson

Oh ok, so maybe if enough of us request a free server to mirror
vc.mfc they may mirror it. I have paid for newsguy for years since they
carry a better format of engineering and cad groups. But the past
few years (even though the groups were still there) all the traffic
has moved to forums, which I can't understand why, unless maybe
they were being originally offered on corporate news servers which
were dropped and folks could not find mirrors without paying.
The forums to me are nothing but an effort in futility.
Thanks for the informative reply !
From: Hector Santos on 27 Jun 2010 22:44

RB wrote:

>
>> A news group isn't hosted on a single server, it exits by means of a
>> lot of servers mirroring each other. As long as these servers continue
>> the mirroring, the group exists.
>> I have never posted through the MS servers. :-)
>> Bo Persson
>
> Oh ok, so maybe if enough of us request a free server to mirror
> vc.mfc they may mirror it. I have paid for newsguy for years since they
> carry a better format of engineering and cad groups. But the past
> few years (even though the groups were still there) all the traffic has
> moved to forums, which I can't understand why, unless maybe
> they were being originally offered on corporate news servers which
> were dropped and folks could not find mirrors without paying.
> The forums to me are nothing but an effort in futility.
> Thanks for the informative reply !


RB,

There is a "TABLE" a "LIST" of newsgoups that news server share, it is
effectively called the UseNet List. It is literally a "text file" and
as most things in the internet, there are people who are basically the
"GateKeepers" of this list file. Someone has to maintain the "list"
what gets into the list, what gets removed, etc.

So the network of news servers that use this common list, is
effectively called the usenet network.

Just think in real terms. Lets say you wanted to start your own news
server A.K.A NNTP Server and you wanted to offer a service, free or
otherwise for other people to connect to you to read usenet
newsgroups. Once you install the NNTP Server, at some point, it has
an option (presented whatever way) to create a NEWS HOST. One of the
inputs would be the network newsgroup "LIST" file, and another will be
what host you will pick up your mail from (IMPORT) and WHAT HOST you
will send mail to (EXPORT):

Host Name:
News LIST FILE
Uplink HOST (EXPORT, who you send new user postings to)
Downlink HOST (IMPORT, where do you pick up new postings from).

Whats common between you and the up/down host is the LIST file or one
or more of the newsgroups within the LIST File because you might not
want ALL the newsgroups, just certain ones. Generally, the Uplink and
downlink is the same server.

The main point here is that YOU will have to find his USENET LIST file
from somewhere list everyone else does and there are Gatekeepers you
can go to to get a copy of it. But its really the LIST from the mail
servers you will pick up/send mail to as they must be common between
you and them.

Now you can now get a PRIVATE LIST of newsgroups for a different
network of servers. That would not be usenet but some other name. RB
NETWORK perhaps that maybe you wish to share 1-2 newsgroups with others.

So the key point here is this LIST file.

Microsoft has newsgroups with the heirarchy:

microsoft.*

that are part of the usenet list file.

As long as these remain in there, then the networking continues
because the servers will have the common list.

That is where there are unknowns.

While people will say that no one owns the usenet newsgroups, that is
a red-herring and fallacy. Microsoft owns the microsoft.* heirarchy
and if they ASK that they be removed from the GateKeeper's official
list, that MAY BE honored.

Statement froms the "Gatekeeps" have said that as Microsoft removes
its newsgroups from its own SERVER, they will be removed from the
official list.

What does that mean?

Well, the servers are automated and if they get the new LIST, it then
no longer has the microsoft.* hierarchy and this how the microsoft
newsgroups will slowly disappear from the automated servers that
follow the official list.

Think about it. For your own server, you got the list from your main
provider or from the GateKeepers FTP site. You don't like to buck the
system. You will keep with the same list everyone is using. So if they
are removed, your server will now get no more mail for these
newsgroups. It will be like its a ghost town.

But if you want to continue this group, so you create a new LIST with
these Microsof.* groups and you ADVERTISE to the world for any server
that wants it to begin sharing this PRIVATE LIST.

Hope all this make sense. :)

--
HLS
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