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From: Rune Allnor on 30 Jul 2010 13:53
On 30 Jul, 19:38, robert bristow-johnson <r...(a)audioimagination.com>
wrote:
> On Jul 30, 12:14 am, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7/29/2010 8:39 PM, Manny wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 30, 1:36 am, Greg Berchin<gberc...(a)comicast.net.invalid>
> > > wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:23:33 -0700 (PDT), Manny<mlou...(a)hotmail.com>  wrote:
> > >>> And if the "high level" dude chose to override the
> > >>> "low level" dude's judgement, it tells you a thing or two, doesn't it?
>
> > >> Yes.  It tells me that you need to re-read the final sentence in my description
> > >> of option (6).
>
> > >>> That said, there are
> > >>> certain things that I could stall and go and do with the Asians while
> > >>> completely operating within the law and the professional code of
> > >>> conduct.
>
> > >> I can only conclude that you don't "get it".
> > > I am doing research on something. And by definition, everything I come
> > > up with is mine AND is in the public domain.
>
> > Only if you didn't draw a salary for doing it. If you were paid,
> > everything you come up with belongs to whomever paid you.
>
> not to dispute the general truth here, Jerry, but it depends on what
> you mean by "everything".

No, it doesn't. It depends on the contract. I have worked under
contracts that stated that every thought or idea I had while in
employment, belonged to my employer. No matter what. It was up to
me to not mention what I would like to keep for myself, or I judged
to be none of my employer's business. I have worked under contracts
where no mentioning of intellectal rights were made. I have worked
under contracts where the employer claimed ownership of only the
toughts or ideas I had that were pertient to the particular business
area, leaving me free to puruse other ideas on my own time.

Manny has to do one thing, fast: Read the fine print in his contract.
If there is a claim of ownership of his ideas and intellectual
contributions,
he is most likely screwed. If there isn't, he would want to consult
legal
advice anyway, as he might still be screwed for reasons not
explicitly
mentioned in his contract.

The main blunder Manny seems to have made (apart from not reading
and /
or contemplating his terms of employment) is to have delwed into
specifics. Now there is no doubt of the stage of development of
his ideas if he leaves. If he had only outlined the ideas briefly,
he could always have claimed later - at his peril!- that he filled
in the details after he left.

Rune
From: Jerry Avins on 30 Jul 2010 18:17
On 7/30/2010 1:53 PM, Rune Allnor wrote:
> On 30 Jul, 19:38, robert bristow-johnson<r...(a)audioimagination.com>
> wrote:
>> On Jul 30, 12:14 am, Jerry Avins<j...(a)ieee.org> wrote:

...

>>> Only if you didn't draw a salary for doing it. If you were paid,
>>> everything you come up with belongs to whomever paid you.
>>
>> not to dispute the general truth here, Jerry, but it depends on what
>> you mean by "everything".
>
> No, it doesn't. It depends on the contract. I have worked under
> contracts that stated that every thought or idea I had while in
> employment, belonged to my employer. No matter what. It was up to
> me to not mention what I would like to keep for myself, or I judged
> to be none of my employer's business. I have worked under contracts
> where no mentioning of intellectal rights were made. I have worked
> under contracts where the employer claimed ownership of only the
> toughts or ideas I had that were pertient to the particular business
> area, leaving me free to puruse other ideas on my own time.

In the US, there are "shop rights". There are also laws that restrict an
employer's rights to employees' ideas unrelated to their field of
employment. There is also an implied duty to protect the employer's
trade secrets.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������
From: Rune Allnor on 31 Jul 2010 05:16
On 31 Jul, 00:17, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote:
> On 7/30/2010 1:53 PM, Rune Allnor wrote:
>
> > On 30 Jul, 19:38, robert bristow-johnson<r...(a)audioimagination.com>
> > wrote:
> >> On Jul 30, 12:14 am, Jerry Avins<j...(a)ieee.org>  wrote:
>
>    ...
>
> >>> Only if you didn't draw a salary for doing it. If you were paid,
> >>> everything you come up with belongs to whomever paid you.
>
> >> not to dispute the general truth here, Jerry, but it depends on what
> >> you mean by "everything".
>
> > No, it doesn't. It depends on the contract. I have worked under
> > contracts that stated that every thought or idea I had while in
> > employment, belonged to my employer. No matter what. It was up to
> > me to not mention what I would like to keep for myself, or I judged
> > to be none of my employer's business. I have worked under contracts
> > where no mentioning of intellectal rights were made. I have worked
> > under contracts where the employer claimed ownership of only the
> > toughts or ideas I had that were pertient to the particular business
> > area, leaving me free to puruse other ideas on my own time.
>
> In the US, there are "shop rights". There are also laws that restrict an
> employer's rights to employees' ideas unrelated to their field of
> employment.

The "we own every thought of yours" terms were in my contract
with some government agency.

> There is also an implied duty to protect the employer's
> trade secrets.

Those things are usually spelled out in detail. Probably to
prevent any misunderstandings about what is not protected, and
to make it abundantly clear that the employer is ready to
act on any violations of secrecy etc.

Rune
From: Jerry Avins on 31 Jul 2010 06:00
On 7/31/2010 5:16 AM, Rune Allnor wrote:
> On 31 Jul, 00:17, Jerry Avins<j...(a)ieee.org> wrote:

...

>> In the US, there are "shop rights". There are also laws that restrict an
>> employer's rights to employees' ideas unrelated to their field of
>> employment.
>
> The "we own every thought of yours" terms were in my contract
> with some government agency.

This was also in my contract with Siemens. I pointed out to the HR guy
that not only was it unenforcible in the US, it also nullified other
provisions. A few months after I was hired, the terms were modified.

>> There is also an implied duty to protect the employer's
>> trade secrets.
>
> Those things are usually spelled out in detail. Probably to
> prevent any misunderstandings about what is not protected, and
> to make it abundantly clear that the employer is ready to
> act on any violations of secrecy etc.

Yes.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������
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