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From: Jerry Avins on 8 May 2010 13:37
On 5/8/2010 12:47 PM, Phil Martel wrote:
> "Jerry Avins"<jya(a)ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:vaWEn.176$gv4.169(a)newsfe09.iad...


>> ... Actually, the Andrea Doria went down because I had
>> put a hex on it the day before. Story on request.

...

>
> Ok Jerry,
>
> I'm curious. If you dn't want to post the sory to comp.dsp, please e-mail
> it to me.

It's a short bit of nonsense. Driving downtown on the West Side Highway
one day before the sinking, a friend and I passed the Andria Doria in
her slip on the Hudson River. She had impressive lines with her sweeps
and projecting bow. To my slightly educated eye, I judged that her hull
shape would make her more comfortable than many other ships in a gale,
but less able to ride out a hurricane. (The same hull features that
minimize rolling in heavy seas promote overtopping in heavier ones.) She
looked to me more like an artist's conception than a naval architect's
work. For a tool, that's ugly. My friend remarked on the ship's
modernistic appearance and called her beautiful. My utilitarian soul
(I've since mellowed) demurred. I replied that she looked ugly to me,
and I wouldn't mind at all if I never saw her again. She went down the
next day. (I always had admired the Stockholm. A seaman's ship.)


Compare
http://www.returntothedoria.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/andrea_doria_51.jpg
to http://www.familytreeheritagelibrary.com/ship/S.S.%20Stockholm.jpg

Jerry
--
"I view the progress of science as ... the slow erosion of the tendency
to dichotomize." --Barbara Smuts, U. Mich.
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From: glen herrmannsfeldt on 8 May 2010 16:19
Clay <clay(a)claysturner.com> wrote:
(snip)

> Well with the Titanic and the Andrea Doria, the main problem seems to
> be not how they were built but how they were captained.

The recent report on the Turkish Air crash last year explains a
problem with the altimeter, but in the end it was still the
captains fault. They had plenty of time and warnings, but didn't
take action early enough. Possibly too much reliance on automated
flight instruments.

Another consideration is the dynamics of a three person flight crew.
One co-pilot can easily correct a mistake by the captain, knowing it
is only between the two of them. It is much more difficult with
two co-pilots for one to point out a possible mistake by the captain.

Similar problems with a three person flight crew also contributed
in the Tenerife crash some years ago.

-- glen
From: Jerry Avins on 8 May 2010 20:27
On 5/8/2010 4:19 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Clay<clay(a)claysturner.com> wrote:
> (snip)
>
>> Well with the Titanic and the Andrea Doria, the main problem seems to
>> be not how they were built but how they were captained.
>
> The recent report on the Turkish Air crash last year explains a
> problem with the altimeter, but in the end it was still the
> captains fault. They had plenty of time and warnings, but didn't
> take action early enough. Possibly too much reliance on automated
> flight instruments.
>
> Another consideration is the dynamics of a three person flight crew.
> One co-pilot can easily correct a mistake by the captain, knowing it
> is only between the two of them. It is much more difficult with
> two co-pilots for one to point out a possible mistake by the captain.
>
> Similar problems with a three person flight crew also contributed
> in the Tenerife crash some years ago.

Culture is part of the picture. It is considered unacceptably bad form
in many cultures to question someone with higher rank or seniority.

Jerry
--
"I view the progress of science as ... the slow erosion of the tendency
to dichotomize." --Barbara Smuts, U. Mich.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������
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