another bizarre architecture
in [Embedded]
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From: John Larkin on 1 Feb 2007 18:10 On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 23:01:28 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > >John Larkin wrote: > > >> I'll typically spend about 1-2 man-weeks on an embedded product >> program, generally around 4-6 klines of code, from start to formal >> release of bug-free code. > >No wonder. It is a tiny project for one man, where everything can be >polished to perfection or at least kept under control. > The project's not tiny, just the code. > It will take me more calendar time, 2x >> maybe, because I do other things, like design hardware and run a >> company. I do maybe 4 such projects a year. >> I think one reason I finish software quickly, and spend very little >> time debugging, is because I don't really like to program, and as soon >> as it's done (and tested, and released) I can do stuff that's more >> fun. If I were a "programmer" I'd be looking to a future of nothing >> but programming, so my incentive to finish is reduced (I'd never >> "finish" programming) and the desire to play with clever >> resume-padding "productivity" tools (abstraction, C++, OOP, Java, >> whatever) would be a lot stronger. >> One of my customers makes megabuck analytical instruments and the >> programming staff has fallen in love with Java and abstraction from >> the hardware. They're averaging about 6-8 bug announcements per week >> and it's "spinning out of control." > >The abstraction and the object oriented tools are the necessity. >The common software developers are the bunch of donkeys with the >incredible ability to screw up anything. However, forcing the bunch into >a simple, sensible and formal development framework allows you to make >use of them. Oh, I forgot to ask: in response to my... > Software is buggy > because of miserable programming methodologies and practices. you replied "No. It is that way because everybody is happy and just likes it to be that way." So my question is, have you personally accepted the "we're happy with lots of bugs" position? John
From: Vladimir Vassilevsky on 1 Feb 2007 18:48 John Larkin wrote: > Oh, I forgot to ask: > > in response to my... > >>Software is buggy >>because of miserable programming methodologies and practices. > > > you replied > > "No. It is that way because everybody is happy and just likes it to be > that way." > > So my question is, have you personally accepted the "we're happy with > lots of bugs" position? Personally I still have the artistic feelings about the development, and I am striving to make the design neat and elegant. However I realize that in many cases the business perspective is quite different if not completely opposite. But it does not matter what do we think. Money talks, and the example of Microsoft and Walmart is a clear indication of what people really want. BTW, you complained about the FPGA design software. Are you willing to pay 10 times more for it if they fix the major bugs? Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com
From: CBFalconer on 1 Feb 2007 15:56 Jan Panteltje wrote: > John Larkin wrote: > >>>> And yes, I'd expect a printf() to use that many bytes - printf() >>>> is a freakin' monstrosity in any case. What does puts() compile >>>> to? >>> >>> It is extremely simple. >>> http://www.koders.com/c/fid61148695142D20F84C4E83E059EEED5677E7CD79.aspx >> >> Monkeys with typewriters. Most of the functions say nothing about >> what they do, and many are effectively or entirely comment-free. > > No, you have to be able to read 'C'!!!!!! > I sort of like that link, maybe it is because I used DJ Delorie's > C compiler djgpp on MS DOS many many years ago... <http://delorie.com/djgpp> The DJGPP compiler is gcc, now using 4 up. 4.1.1 is available for DJGPP at: <http://ap1.pp.fi/djgpp/gcc/4.1.1/gcc411.html> DJ's basic claim to fame is a library that mimics Unix and runs under DOS, together with mechanisms to execute 32 bit code under DOS. This is not a minor contribution. You can also use FreeDos, and eliminate Microsoft entirely. It includes a good info page for the C library. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
From: Spehro Pefhany on 1 Feb 2007 21:09 On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:32:53 -0800, the renowned John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:41:03 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky ><antispam_bogus(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>Hardware is getting more and more disgracefull. Look at the 50-page >>erratas for the modern CPUs. > >That's mostly firmware bugs! My MC68332's have no bugs that I know of. <snip> The MC68332 is about old enough to vote, innit? Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
From: Didi on 1 Feb 2007 20:58
> The MC68332 is about old enough to vote, innit? But the assembly language which comes with it is alive. Available as a subset within my VPA, which happily produces PPC code out of it. Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ On Feb 2, 4:09 am, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:32:53 -0800, the renowned John Larkin > > <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:41:03 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky > ><antispam_bo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Hardware is getting more and more disgracefull. Look at the 50-page > >>erratas for the modern CPUs. > > >That's mostly firmware bugs! My MC68332's have no bugs that I know of. > > <snip> > > The MC68332 is about old enough to vote, innit? > > Best regards, > Spehro Pefhany > -- > "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" > s...(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers:http://www.trexon.com > Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |