battery chargers, again
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 28 Sep 2009 18:43 Tim Wescott wrote: > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:11:54 -0700, Joerg wrote: > >> Tim Wescott wrote: >>> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:51:40 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>> >>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:04:17 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>>> <tim(a)seemywebsite.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>> One new battery is cheaper than one tow truck ride. Do the math. >>>>> Our insurance covers the truck ride. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> But not if you get stuck umpteen miles north of Tonopah, the cell >>>> phone shows zero bars and the only thing you see is the bloated >>>> carcass of a dead cow. BT. >>>> >>>> Anyhow, your car insurnace covers a tow? Ours (Farmers) doesn't AFAIK. >>>> Did you have to buy that extra? >>> AAA. >>> >>> >> Ok, but last time I checked they were quite a bit more expensive in >> insurance rates than Farmers. > > But nice when you're back of the beyond with a car full of screaming kids > and that cow is starting to look like dinner. > Problem is, back there we couldn't even have called AAA. Because there is no cell coverage anywhere. Luckily we had packed some tools and were able to fix it. The same happened to me after dusk on the road from Durness to Inverness in Scotland. The old Ford Cortina just stopped, no more electric. Looked around, opened fuse box, the big one was gone. "Oh s..t!" ... no other cars traveling that road at this late hour. I did meet one horse though, alone, just wandering about (you see those a lot there). I seriously doubt it would have agreed to carry me to Inverness. So I slowly walked back and lucked out, found the fuse in the dirt. It had simply fallen out. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jim Thompson on 28 Sep 2009 18:54 On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:51:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:04:17 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim(a)seemywebsite.com> >> wrote: >> > >[...] > >>> One new battery is cheaper than one tow truck ride. Do the math. >> >> Our insurance covers the truck ride. >> > >But not if you get stuck umpteen miles north of Tonopah, the cell phone >shows zero bars and the only thing you see is the bloated carcass of a >dead cow. BT. > >Anyhow, your car insurnace covers a tow? Ours (Farmers) doesn't AFAIK. Our car came with emergency road service provided for the warranty period of the car ;-) >Did you have to buy that extra? State Farm offers it for like $3/6-months. Verizon even has it for ~$2/mo., on your cellphone bill ;-) Insurance for improbable events can be quite inexpensive. I just added full identity theft coverage to our homeowners... $25/year. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Coming soon to the elementary school in your neighborhood... I pledge allegiance to Dear Leader Barack Hussein Obama and to the community organization for which he stands: one nation under ACORN, unchallengeable, with wealth redistribution and climate change for all.
From: krw on 28 Sep 2009 20:28 On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:06:34 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:04:17 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim(a)seemywebsite.com> >wrote: > >>On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:16:46 -0700, John Larkin wrote: >> >>> Last time a car went dead in the garage, my wife's Fit, I hacked up a >>> charger from an old DSL wall-wart and a sabre saw as a series current >>> limiter. The garage geometry makes it essentially impossible for us to >>> push a car uphill to the street to jump it. Now The Brat left her Echo >>> in the garege for a month or so and it went dead, too. So I figure it's >>> time to buy a real charger. Went to Kragen Auto Parts and bought two >>> (one for here, one for Truckee) chargers. They are all "smart chargers", >>> namely switchers with electronics, these days. >>> >>> The battery is really dead, 1.8 volts. The first charger hums and >>> outputs nothing. Tried the next one: it hummed for maybe 3 seconds then >>> sparked and smoked inside. >>> >>> Went back to Kragen and traded up, two better chargers. Neither >>> charges... no current, battery steady at 1.8 volts. Both have their >>> "charging" LEDs off and "charge complete" LEDs lit. >>> >>> Back to Kragen, 3rd time, got all my money back. Passed by Bob Pease's >>> place all three trips, same collection of rusty VWs everywhere. >>> >>> A charger that puts zero amps into a dead battery does that by design, >>> and there's only one reason to do that: to convince people they need a >>> new battery. Kragen's sales pitch was exactly along those lines; "Tt >>> won't charge, so all the cells are shorted." >>> >>> So I went to work and nabbed a cute little Lascar bench power supply. It >>> current limits at 1.2 amps, so I just cranked it up. The battery went >>> instantly to 16.5 volts, then settled down to 12 or so in a few minutes, >>> and is creeping back up. >>> >>> Interesting. >>> >>> So I guess I'll buy a couple of 3 amp or so lab supplies, with nice volt >>> and amp meters, instead of battery chargers. They're handier to have >>> around anyhow, cost about the same as a "good" charger, and aren't booby >>> trapped. >>> >>> What Kragen is doing is fraud. >>> >>> John >> >>I've never had a battery come back from being that dead, and I've had >>numerous chances to try it (I'm stubborn that way). You'll be lucky to >>see 12V out of it with the charger disconnected, and I doubt that you'll >>see that after the first time you touch the key. If you _do_ get the car >>started it'll just be an opportunity for you daughter to get stranded >>some place. > >It started OK after about 6 hours at 1.2 amps, started vigorously >after charging all night. My wife's car was zero-volts dead a couple >months ago, got rebooted from the DSL wall-wart, and it's fine. >Lead-acids will sulphate and lose capacity if they sit dead for a long >time. > >> >>One new battery is cheaper than one tow truck ride. Do the math. > >Our insurance covers the truck ride. It's the brat's vehicle, IIRC. I wouldn't beg *any* trouble for a woman's vehicle. ...for more reasons that I can count. The brat's, never.
From: krw on 28 Sep 2009 20:32 On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:54:31 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:51:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >wrote: > >>John Larkin wrote: >>> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:04:17 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim(a)seemywebsite.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>[...] >> >>>> One new battery is cheaper than one tow truck ride. Do the math. >>> >>> Our insurance covers the truck ride. >>> >> >>But not if you get stuck umpteen miles north of Tonopah, the cell phone >>shows zero bars and the only thing you see is the bloated carcass of a >>dead cow. BT. >> >>Anyhow, your car insurnace covers a tow? Ours (Farmers) doesn't AFAIK. > >Our car came with emergency road service provided for the warranty >period of the car ;-) > >>Did you have to buy that extra? > >State Farm offers it for like $3/6-months. Verizon even has it for >~$2/mo., on your cellphone bill ;-) Insuring what one can easily afford to lose is always a loser. >Insurance for improbable events can be quite inexpensive. I just >added full identity theft coverage to our homeowners... $25/year. Identity theft is quite unlikely can be a royal PITA. As long as they're insuring that *they* will clean it up, not just cover monetary losses, it's probably a good deal. Be *very* careful about what they will cover though. Most of that sort of insurance is garbage.
From: John Larkin on 28 Sep 2009 20:39
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:28:39 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:06:34 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:04:17 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim(a)seemywebsite.com> >>wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:16:46 -0700, John Larkin wrote: >>> >>>> Last time a car went dead in the garage, my wife's Fit, I hacked up a >>>> charger from an old DSL wall-wart and a sabre saw as a series current >>>> limiter. The garage geometry makes it essentially impossible for us to >>>> push a car uphill to the street to jump it. Now The Brat left her Echo >>>> in the garege for a month or so and it went dead, too. So I figure it's >>>> time to buy a real charger. Went to Kragen Auto Parts and bought two >>>> (one for here, one for Truckee) chargers. They are all "smart chargers", >>>> namely switchers with electronics, these days. >>>> >>>> The battery is really dead, 1.8 volts. The first charger hums and >>>> outputs nothing. Tried the next one: it hummed for maybe 3 seconds then >>>> sparked and smoked inside. >>>> >>>> Went back to Kragen and traded up, two better chargers. Neither >>>> charges... no current, battery steady at 1.8 volts. Both have their >>>> "charging" LEDs off and "charge complete" LEDs lit. >>>> >>>> Back to Kragen, 3rd time, got all my money back. Passed by Bob Pease's >>>> place all three trips, same collection of rusty VWs everywhere. >>>> >>>> A charger that puts zero amps into a dead battery does that by design, >>>> and there's only one reason to do that: to convince people they need a >>>> new battery. Kragen's sales pitch was exactly along those lines; "Tt >>>> won't charge, so all the cells are shorted." >>>> >>>> So I went to work and nabbed a cute little Lascar bench power supply. It >>>> current limits at 1.2 amps, so I just cranked it up. The battery went >>>> instantly to 16.5 volts, then settled down to 12 or so in a few minutes, >>>> and is creeping back up. >>>> >>>> Interesting. >>>> >>>> So I guess I'll buy a couple of 3 amp or so lab supplies, with nice volt >>>> and amp meters, instead of battery chargers. They're handier to have >>>> around anyhow, cost about the same as a "good" charger, and aren't booby >>>> trapped. >>>> >>>> What Kragen is doing is fraud. >>>> >>>> John >>> >>>I've never had a battery come back from being that dead, and I've had >>>numerous chances to try it (I'm stubborn that way). You'll be lucky to >>>see 12V out of it with the charger disconnected, and I doubt that you'll >>>see that after the first time you touch the key. If you _do_ get the car >>>started it'll just be an opportunity for you daughter to get stranded >>>some place. >> >>It started OK after about 6 hours at 1.2 amps, started vigorously >>after charging all night. My wife's car was zero-volts dead a couple >>months ago, got rebooted from the DSL wall-wart, and it's fine. >>Lead-acids will sulphate and lose capacity if they sit dead for a long >>time. >> >>> >>>One new battery is cheaper than one tow truck ride. Do the math. >> >>Our insurance covers the truck ride. > >It's the brat's vehicle, IIRC. I wouldn't beg *any* trouble for a >woman's vehicle. ...for more reasons that I can count. The brat's, >never. She left the Echo - her high school car - in our garage because all she wants to drive now is her Jeep Rubicon. Gotta get her to sell the Echo so we can have our garage back. http://www.rubicon-trail.com/ But if her car battery did go dead, she wouldn't have any trouble getting a jump start. John |