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From: Brian on 17 Feb 2007 01:58

>
>Brian,
> If you haven't already downloaded a copy of MASM, and if you'd like to
>get one, a complete version of MASM 6.11 can be downloaded from here:
> http://www.phatcode.net/downloads.php?id=175
>
>You can then get the upgrade patches from here:
> http://users.easystreet.com/jkirwan/new/pctools.html
>
>Best of luck,
> Bodhi

Thanks for the link Bodhi, I'll check that out in the mornin'
Brian,
-remove CAPS from return email
From: Wolfgang Kern on 17 Feb 2007 10:55

"Betov" answered Brian:

> > I'm so new to assembly that I would
> > like direction in ways to *not* waste time learning.

> OK, then, first recommendation: Do not waste your time with evenbit.
> :)

I enjoy N8's ODD comments ...

ATT: Brian,

You should at least know what "you" prefer and what your
final target might be.

Beside Herbert's syntax, which is hard to read for all who
aren't familiar with it (my personal HEX_WORK85 style is similar),
there is AT&T (I never learned this '%%'-stuff)
and along with others there is "the one syntax"(used in CPU-manuals)
we all understand (more or less).

FASM uses the instruction-mnemonics as they are in the books.
ROSASM use it as well, but slighly reduced it to typing needs.

All tools with HLL-styled MACRO,FOR,DO,WHILE,IF,WEND,etc... may
need a lot of additional learning, which easy can endup in confusion.

Take some code examples from whatsoever source you like to check
and then try to interprete the lines by using just CPU-books.

If windoze-programming is your goal then go through ROSASM-tutorials
from 'test-department'.

__
wolfgang



From: Betov on 17 Feb 2007 14:01
"Wolfgang Kern" <kesys(a)utanet.at> �crivait news:er78qe$43a$1
@newsreader2.utanet.at:

> FASM uses the instruction-mnemonics as they are in the books.
> ROSASM use it as well, but slighly reduced it to typing needs.
>
> All tools with HLL-styled MACRO,FOR,DO,WHILE,IF,WEND,etc... may
> need a lot of additional learning, which easy can endup in confusion.
>
> Take some code examples from whatsoever source you like to check
> and then try to interprete the lines by using just CPU-books.
>
> If windoze-programming is your goal then go through ROSASM-tutorials
> from 'test-department'.


Seriously. Do you think that we should write a practical set
of Tutorials explaning the very basics of Assembly to pure
beginners?

I am thinking about something very simple for a first access,
written in "generic Assembly" (kind of FASM Syntax based) and it
seems to me that the very best environment, for do so, should
be RosAsm, because of its integrated Debugger, - which should be
the center of the learning process -, and because of its "Alternates
Syntaxes" capacities. I am thinking about just showing the effects
of the basic operations, and how they are represented in the Debugger.

This would perhaps save this kind of beginners from wasting their
time with books. This would be closer to the KetMan Tutorials than
to your HexTutor. If you think there is something worthy the effort
to be done in that direction, send me a Mail for discussing about it...


Betov.

< http://rosasm.org >






From: Wolfgang Kern on 18 Feb 2007 06:04

Hi Rene,
[...]
>> If windoze-programming is your goal then go through
>> ROSASM-tutorials from 'test-department'.

> Seriously. Do you think that we should write a practical set
> of Tutorials explaning the very basics of Assembly to pure
> beginners?

Yes, why not, most beginners have windoze-coding in mind anyway.

My docs contain just a few pages [very terse table-styled]
about (several different) CPU-internals:

registers(and usability), addressing modes, prefix description,
restrictions and listings of functionality-orderd instructions.

> I am thinking about something very simple for a first access,
> written in "generic Assembly" (kind of FASM Syntax based) and it
> seems to me that the very best environment, for do so, should
> be RosAsm, because of its integrated Debugger, - which should be
> the center of the learning process -, and because of its "Alternates
> Syntaxes" capacities. I am thinking about just showing the effects
> of the basic operations, and how they are represented in the Debugger.
>
> This would perhaps save this kind of beginners from wasting their
> time with books. This would be closer to the KetMan Tutorials than
> to your HexTutor. If you think there is something worthy the effort
> to be done in that direction, send me a Mail for discussing about it...

Yes, good idea.
My HEXTUTOR need a few extensions like verbose instruction help,
[it was planned anyway, still enough nop-space in the ovl-file]
so it may become a side-kick tool without confusing beginners :)

BTW: I checked V2.046a disassembler on my mobile-com-PE (<~1MB).
it seems to work fine even the code is written extremely weird,
so the source for it grew to 8 MB !! And I haven't enough
memory reserved to show the tree at all. It's a good example
of why I prefer machine-code !! :) Almost all 'procedures'
in there can be replaced by single instructions.
__
wolfgang



From: //o//annabee on 20 Feb 2007 19:54
P� Fri, 16 Feb 2007 05:13:09 +0100, skrev Jim Carlock
<anonymous(a)127.0.0.1>:

> P� Fri, 16 Feb 2007 04:05:48 +0100, skrev Jim Carlock posted...
> : Microsoft seems to be offering the Kernel Mode Driver Framework
> : once again. It's currently marked as Version 1.5 and ends up as a
> : 2.4 GB iso image to download.
> :
> : They offer a smaller DDK package as well. Both provide versions
> : of the MASM compilers, but you have to agree to Microsoft's terms
> : of use. It's currently dated January 30, 2007.
> :
> : http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/DevTools/WDK/WDKpkg.mspx
>
>
> "//\\o//\\annabee" <Wannabee.Wannabee.org> wrote:
> : Thanks for the link (allthough I have not downloaded it completly
> : yet) Why is it so big? I saw an assmebler tutorial around for
> : drivers, and that was just a few kb.
>
> They don't seem to require any sort of agreement to click on the
> link... so the direct link to the 2.4 GB download (watch for wrap).
>
> http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/1/0/51032bfc-96f3-45b8-b146-6423fe279eb8/6000.16386.WDK_RTM.iso
>
> I just finished downloading it myself. They call it the Windows
> Driver Kit now and state that the KMDF is a part of it. I don't
> know why it's so big. I need someone to verify the md5sum on
> it as I just finished downloading it myself. It took a full hour to
> download.
>
> 82219416e558598cc694e0560b831e3b *6000.16386.WDK_RTM.iso
>
> Thanks!

Well. This iso crashed during install. Why? Probably because it could not
find enough harddrive space to install itself. How it could be unable to
see that there are 39 gigabyte of available space I dont now. But I could
not get it to install. Same for _all_ the other downloads I did from
m$ latly, the ones recommended by Herbert. VB, VC, and several others.
They simply fail the install process.


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