best option: tk + itcl + sqlite + threads?
in [TCL]
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From: mikeday on 29 Jan 2010 21:06 Hi All, I'm really liking Tcl and have decided to use it as the primary language for my current project. However, I haven't found an affordable (free or low cost!) cross-platform deployment solution that includes all of the following packages: Tcl 8.5 Tk Itcl Sqlite Threads It also needs to support at least the following platforms: Windows (2000, XP, and on) Unix/Linux Mac OS X Tclkit is awesome but doesn't support threads. eTcl looks very promising but doesn't come with Itcl. dqkit is out of date and doesn't seem to be actively supported. Is there a ready-to-use option that satisfies the above that I haven't found yet? If not, would someone more experienced here mind recommending what they think is the best route to take to make my own binaries for the above platforms that include all these packages? BTW, I've noticed arguments here and there against threading. I'm sympathetic to these arguments, since I've done a lot of multithreaded coding myself and experienced the headaches. However, there are still situations where threading seems the best solution. In my case, I need to have multiple AI's considering a situation at the same time, and it would be very difficult to give all of them a fair amount of computation time while keeping the whole UI responsive without threads. Any help, tips, pointers, warnings, welcome. Thank you! - Mike Day
From: tom.rmadilo on 29 Jan 2010 21:40 On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, mike...(a)webmail.us wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm really liking Tcl and have decided to use it as the primary > language for my current project. However, I haven't found an > affordable (free or low cost!) cross-platform deployment solution that > includes all of the following packages: > > Tcl 8.5 > Tk > Itcl > Sqlite > Threads > > It also needs to support at least the following platforms: > > Windows (2000, XP, and on) > Unix/Linux > Mac OS X > > Tclkit is awesome but doesn't support threads. eTcl looks very > promising but doesn't come with Itcl. dqkit is out of date and > doesn't seem to be actively supported. > > Is there a ready-to-use option that satisfies the above that I haven't > found yet? If not, would someone more experienced here mind > recommending what they think is the best route to take to make my own > binaries for the above platforms that include all these packages? > > BTW, I've noticed arguments here and there against threading. I'm > sympathetic to these arguments, since I've done a lot of multithreaded > coding myself and experienced the headaches. However, there are still > situations where threading seems the best solution. In my case, I > need to have multiple AI's considering a situation at the same time, > and it would be very difficult to give all of them a fair amount of > computation time while keeping the whole UI responsive without > threads. > > Any help, tips, pointers, warnings, welcome. So the issue boils down to packaging? Seems like the immediate issue should be program design. You could test the different component packages on each platform to assure yourself that they work and work together. You'll need that experience before moving on to a cross- platform deployment solution, if one exists.
From: Tcl Bliss on 30 Jan 2010 02:26 On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, mike...(a)webmail.us wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm really liking Tcl and have decided to use it as the primary > language for my current project. However, I haven't found an > affordable (free or low cost!) cross-platform deployment solution that > includes all of the following packages: > > Tcl 8.5 > Tk > Itcl > Sqlite > Threads > > It also needs to support at least the following platforms: > > Windows (2000, XP, and on) > Unix/Linux > Mac OS X > > Tclkit is awesome but doesn't support threads. eTcl looks very > promising but doesn't come with Itcl. dqkit is out of date and > doesn't seem to be actively supported. > > Is there a ready-to-use option that satisfies the above that I haven't > found yet? If not, would someone more experienced here mind > recommending what they think is the best route to take to make my own > binaries for the above platforms that include all these packages? > > BTW, I've noticed arguments here and there against threading. I'm > sympathetic to these arguments, since I've done a lot of multithreaded > coding myself and experienced the headaches. However, there are still > situations where threading seems the best solution. In my case, I > need to have multiple AI's considering a situation at the same time, > and it would be very difficult to give all of them a fair amount of > computation time while keeping the whole UI responsive without > threads. > > Any help, tips, pointers, warnings, welcome. > > Thank you! > - Mike Day tclkit located here: http://code.google.com/p/tclkit/ supports threads, at least for Linux. I haven't tested the Windows or Mac versions. Download and try.
From: tomk on 30 Jan 2010 12:42 On Jan 29, 7:06 pm, mike...(a)webmail.us wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm really liking Tcl and have decided to use it as the primary > language for my current project. However, I haven't found an > affordable (free or low cost!) cross-platform deployment solution that > includes all of the following packages: > > Tcl 8.5 > Tk > Itcl > Sqlite > Threads > > It also needs to support at least the following platforms: > > Windows (2000, XP, and on) > Unix/Linux > Mac OS X > > Tclkit is awesome but doesn't support threads. eTcl looks very > promising but doesn't come with Itcl. dqkit is out of date and > doesn't seem to be actively supported. > > Is there a ready-to-use option that satisfies the above that I haven't > found yet? If not, would someone more experienced here mind > recommending what they think is the best route to take to make my own > binaries for the above platforms that include all these packages? > > BTW, I've noticed arguments here and there against threading. I'm > sympathetic to these arguments, since I've done a lot of multithreaded > coding myself and experienced the headaches. However, there are still > situations where threading seems the best solution. In my case, I > need to have multiple AI's considering a situation at the same time, > and it would be very difficult to give all of them a fair amount of > computation time while keeping the whole UI responsive without > threads. > > Any help, tips, pointers, warnings, welcome. > > Thank you! > - Mike Day I would recommend that you use the Active State distribution, here is the man page for their packages http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.pkg_index.html. I would also point out that is extreamly unlikely that you need to use threads, as you do with other languages, because tcl unlike other languages, has a built in event model that does all the work for you. Please discuss your need for using threads with the tcl experts be for going down that path. tomk
From: tom.rmadilo on 30 Jan 2010 16:40
On Jan 30, 9:42 am, tomk <krehbiel....(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I would recommend that you use the Active State distribution, here is > the man page for their packageshttp://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.pkg_index.html. This seems like good advice if you are not used to one or more alternative platforms. > I would also point out that is extreamly unlikely that you need to use > threads, as you do with other languages, because tcl unlike other > languages, has a built in event model that does all the work for you. Follow the next piece of advice before the one above: > Please discuss your need for using threads with the tcl experts be for > going down that path. Tcl can use the event loop and threads, in fact, the Threads package relies on the event loop to queue events. What threads gives you is easier isolation of data in the global namespace and easier programming with channel code, without creating a cross-thread communication problem. To do worker-thread-like programming with a single interp, you have to change the data model to handle multiple sets of data for each parallel chunk of work.* This is not free and it isn't at all easy to adapt code to move from serial to parallel workflow. So one thing you get with threads is the ability to use code without too much worry that a script will screw up your global environment. BTW, this is one reason that web servers usually rely on threads or separate processes: code review would quickly cost more time than any other activity. (Note that most other types of servers don't rely at all on externally contributed code). * One method is to migrate a scalar variable to an array where the key is added to the API signature, * Another method is to use some type of object system (TclOO uses a unique namespace to protect data), * Instead of an array you can directly use a namespace, which allows more than one variable to be easily referenced with a particular key (I'm guessing this is why TclOO uses namespaces). |