beta to release
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From: Simon Riggs on 8 May 2010 06:34 On Fri, 2010-05-07 at 18:26 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Tom Lane <tgl(a)sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > > Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> [ argues, in effect, for starting 9.1 development right now ] > > > > I can't stop you from spending your time as you please. My development > > time for at least the next month or two is going to be spent on > > code-reading the HS/SR code and fixing bugs as they come in. I don't > > foresee having any time to work on my own 9.1 projects, let alone > > review anyone else's. > > I'm really making an effort to be a "good" community member. There > are a couple of reasons I don't think that I can spend ALL of my PG > time over the next few months on release prep: > > 1. I'm not really sure what I would spend that much time doing. > 2. My employer has things they want done for 9.1. > > That having been said, I am perfectly happy to devote a substantial > amount of time to helping with 9.0, but I think it needs a little more > organization to make it productive. I am not the first person to make > this observation and I'm sure I won't be the last. I've often faced the issue you describe. I think its difficult for everybody to help at this stage. In many ways it is a serialization and it's good that Tom holds the gate tighter than normal at this point. The main thing I've tried to do was map out plans for my time so you know which features will be worked on, in which order. Most of that planning needs to happen quietly because its not really possible to say "I intend to work on X" without it becoming a discussion about what X should look like, which is distracting to the release process. Having said that, I've often found that discussing things off-list with other hackers leads to later grief. I think Bruce wrote a good piece on that once. What 2 or 3 people think is a good way forwards is seldom shared by others, and many ideas fall foul of complete blockers, or simply easier or better ideas. Last year we both worked on the same issues. I'd ask that if you intend to work on anything you know myself or other hackers are working on, please ask so we can avoid duplicating any efforts. -- Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Robert Haas on 8 May 2010 07:47 On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy(a)hub.org> wrote: > IMHO, there is nothing wrong with you (or any other developer) spending time > working on v9.1 features if said person feels that they have satisfied > themselves that v9.0 is ready for release (ie. I think the best test anyone > can run, espeecially those whose employer uses PostgreSQL, is to run tests > using their own applications / environment ... regressions are great and > all, but real world always finds something new) ... > > Tom's employer requires *as clean* a release as possible, so for him, his > priority is to go through and test everything and anything he can think of > ... and that includes doing review of the code that got added ... but, that > is what *his* employer is paying his time to do ... > > Again, IMHO, the critical thing throughout beta is that if a bug is > reported, or an oddiity, that any 'development for 9.1' gets drop'd fast and > teh bug report is jumped on / fixed ASAP ... > > To me, beta is ... we're ready for release, we're not throwing in any new > code .. it is a time for more 'end users' to start testing real world > applications (even if they won't run 9.0, but will wait for 9.0.1) to start > evaluating, which inevitable will generate bug reports to be fixed ... That all sounds reasonable to me, and is about how I feel about it myself. Thinking about Tom's comments a little more, I think there are probably a few things that I could/should go back over in a little more detail, and I'm going to make time to do that, but I'm also going to work on 9.1 features as time permits. I will also take the time to respond to design proposals for proposed 9.1 projects, especially from anyone who similarly takes the time to respond to mine. I probably will not look at actual patches very much just yet. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Robert Haas on 8 May 2010 08:12 On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 6:34 AM, Simon Riggs <simon(a)2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > I've often faced the issue you describe. I think its difficult for > everybody to help at this stage. In many ways it is a serialization and > it's good that Tom holds the gate tighter than normal at this point. > > The main thing I've tried to do was map out plans for my time so you > know which features will be worked on, in which order. Most of that > planning needs to happen quietly because its not really possible to say > "I intend to work on X" without it becoming a discussion about what X > should look like, which is distracting to the release process. > > Having said that, I've often found that discussing things off-list with > other hackers leads to later grief. I think Bruce wrote a good piece on > that once. What 2 or 3 people think is a good way forwards is seldom > shared by others, and many ideas fall foul of complete blockers, or > simply easier or better ideas. Yeah, I think we need to start having those discussions on-list. Trying to develop things quietly so it doesn't become a distraction can result in "wasting a lot of time going down a dead end". Tom and Alvaro saved me a ton of time on the temporary-relations-get-different-filenames patch I submitted earlier this week, and I really appreciate that. My guess is that it didn't take them much time to respond to my emails, either. Even if neither of them actually read for several months, I have a lot more confidence that the basic approach is sound than I would otherwise, and I was able to develop it much more quickly than would have been possible in a complete vacuum. Of course, as you say, we don't want to go nuts and get into long arguments about things, but I think that high-level design discussions should be viewed as in order. This is important (1) to avoid duplication, (2) to enable people to get done the work their employers are willing to fund at the time their employers are willing to fund it, and (3) to create a reasonable hope of some of the big patches landing earlier in the cycle. > Last year we both worked on the same issues. I'd ask that if you intend > to work on anything you know myself or other hackers are working on, > please ask so we can avoid duplicating any efforts. I will try to do that. Currently, the things that I know I will be spending some effort on for 9.1 are (1) global temporary and/or unlogged tables, (2) inner join removal, and (3) mentoring the GSoC projects on matviews, json, and merge. Everything else is pretty amorphous at this point, but I typically send out design emails fairly early on in the process. Please also share your plans for 9.1. Come to think of it, I think we should start a page on the wiki for developers to list major projects they plan to work on for 9.1, maybe also with a space to indicate whether the project is possible or definite. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Simon Riggs on 8 May 2010 09:41 On Sat, 2010-05-08 at 08:12 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: > (3) mentoring the GSoC > projects on matviews, json, and merge. Everything else is pretty > amorphous at this point, That's good you volunteered. I'm sorry to say that I'm really surprised to hear anyone thinks MERGE or matviews are suitable student projects. I regard both as long and hard projects and feel we shouldn't be encouraging people to do things like that as their first project. (Not aimed at you, or any individual.) > Please also share your plans for 9.1. Will do. Synch rep. is one, there are others, but not as much thought gone into this as usual yet. -- Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
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