dieresis
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From: D Yuniskis on 2 Mar 2010 13:26 Stefan Reuther wrote: > D Yuniskis wrote: >> Frank-Christian Kr�gel wrote: >>> Am 01.03.2010 22:58, schrieb D Yuniskis: >>>> Today, as I was trying to remember a keystroke sequence >>>> for an accented character in FrameMaker, I *conciously* >>>> noticed that I still automatically spell "naive" with a >>>> dieresis. >>> Oh, we like using them. Just look at my sig. :-) >> Yes, but an umlaut changes the sound of the vowel >> whereas a dieresis causes the vowel to be pronounced as >> another syllable. > > Unicode makes no difference between the two cases :) Unicode is just a catalog of *glyphs*. They have no "meaning". >> (can an umlaut be used on anything *other* than a vowel?) > > Unicode has � (U+00FF) and CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE WITH DIARERESIS > (U+04DD); the bases of both are not vowels as far as I know... Y is often a semi-vowel. Does "ZHE" qualify as a "consonant"? The very nature of diaresis is that it applies to vowels (?). I was asking about umlaut, though... > Stefan (who usually uses a hyphen to separate ambiguous words, > because it also works for other kinds of ambiguities) --don (who loves using asterisks, commas, bangs and other assorted textual decorations :> )
From: Stefan Reuther on 2 Mar 2010 15:52 D Yuniskis wrote: > Stefan Reuther wrote: >>> Yes, but an umlaut changes the sound of the vowel >>> whereas a dieresis causes the vowel to be pronounced as >>> another syllable. >> >> Unicode makes no difference between the two cases :) > > Unicode is just a catalog of *glyphs*. They have no "meaning". It depends. We have A, Α, and А, which have the same glyph and different meaning. And we have things like non-breaking spaces of all sorts, which have no glyph and just meaning.... >>> (can an umlaut be used on anything *other* than a vowel?) >> >> Unicode has ÿ (U+00FF) and CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE WITH DIARERESIS >> (U+04DD); the bases of both are not vowels as far as I know... > > Y is often a semi-vowel. Does "ZHE" qualify as a "consonant"? > The very nature of diaresis is that it applies to vowels (?). My (long ago) Russian class didn't tell me anything about CYRILLIC LETTER ZHE WITH DIARERESIS, but CYRILLIC LETTER ZHE was a consonant (it's about the same sound as the 'sh' in 'English'). > I was asking about umlaut, though... The only "other" umlaut I know besides the German ones is a cyrillic one, ё (CYRILLIC LETTER YO), but as far as I can tell, using the cute little dots isn't mandatory. Now does this make it more an umlaut (because the original 'e' sound changes into an 'o' sound), or more a diaeresis (because it's just a parsing aid telling you how to pronounce a word...)? :-) Stefan
From: Robert Baer on 2 Mar 2010 23:32 D Yuniskis wrote: > Hi Frank-Christian, > > Frank-Christian Kr�gel wrote: >> Am 01.03.2010 22:58, schrieb D Yuniskis: >> >>> Today, as I was trying to remember a keystroke sequence >>> for an accented character in FrameMaker, I *conciously* >>> noticed that I still automatically spell "naive" with a >>> dieresis. >> >> Oh, we like using them. Just look at my sig. :-) > > Yes, but an umlaut changes the sound of the vowel > whereas a dieresis causes the vowel to be pronounced as > another syllable. > > For example: > > pre-empt > > co-operation > > Not quite the same thing. > > (can an umlaut be used on anything *other* than a vowel?) Do not think so - look at it this way: encyclopAEdia; that is to say, spell out the implied expression. ** BTW, from the "sound", one might think that "dieresis" is a term for a medical procedure...
From: David Brown on 3 Mar 2010 02:56 On 02/03/2010 18:49, Stefan Reuther wrote: > D Yuniskis wrote: >> Frank-Christian Kr�gel wrote: >>> Am 01.03.2010 22:58, schrieb D Yuniskis: >>>> Today, as I was trying to remember a keystroke sequence >>>> for an accented character in FrameMaker, I *conciously* >>>> noticed that I still automatically spell "naive" with a >>>> dieresis. >>> >>> Oh, we like using them. Just look at my sig. :-) >> >> Yes, but an umlaut changes the sound of the vowel >> whereas a dieresis causes the vowel to be pronounced as >> another syllable. > > Unicode makes no difference between the two cases :) > >> (can an umlaut be used on anything *other* than a vowel?) > > Unicode has � (U+00FF) and CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE WITH DIARERESIS > (U+04DD); the bases of both are not vowels as far as I know... > I don't know about Cyrillic letters, but "y" is considered a vowel in some languages, such as Norwegian. And in Swedish, � and � are not considered as "a with an umlaut" and "o with an umlaut", but are individual letters in their own right, with their own place in the alphabet.
From: Paul Carpenter on 3 Mar 2010 04:16
In article <4b8e164c$0$2023$8404b019(a)news.wineasy.se>, david(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com says... > On 02/03/2010 18:49, Stefan Reuther wrote: > > D Yuniskis wrote: > >> Frank-Christian Krügel wrote: > >>> Am 01.03.2010 22:58, schrieb D Yuniskis: > >>>> Today, as I was trying to remember a keystroke sequence > >>>> for an accented character in FrameMaker, I *conciously* > >>>> noticed that I still automatically spell "naive" with a > >>>> dieresis. > >>> > >>> Oh, we like using them. Just look at my sig. :-) > >> > >> Yes, but an umlaut changes the sound of the vowel > >> whereas a dieresis causes the vowel to be pronounced as > >> another syllable. > > > > Unicode makes no difference between the two cases :) > > > >> (can an umlaut be used on anything *other* than a vowel?) > > > > Unicode has ÿ (U+00FF) and CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE WITH DIARERESIS > > (U+04DD); the bases of both are not vowels as far as I know... > > > > I don't know about Cyrillic letters, but "y" is considered a vowel in > some languages, such as Norwegian. And in Swedish, ä and ö are not > considered as "a with an umlaut" and "o with an umlaut", but are > individual letters in their own right, with their own place in the alphabet. Also Y is often classed as a special case vowel in English for words such as - by gym rhythm -- Paul Carpenter | paul(a)pcserviceselectronics.co.uk <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font <http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny <http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate |