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From: nmm1 on 23 Jun 2010 20:02 In article <4c21fa3e$0$2366$4d3efbfe(a)news.sover.net>, Peter C. Chapin <pcc482719(a)gmail.com> wrote: >SG wrote: > >> If you want to be >> a good programmer you might want to learn more than one programming >> language anyway. > >I want to echo this sentiment. Learning multiple languages is a must. Learning >certain languages can change the way you think about programming and that's >useful no matter what language you focus on. Even if you want to become a C++ >master (maybe especially if you want to become a C++ master), you should also >spend some time learning a dynamic language (Python?), a functional language >(OCaml? Scala?), and maybe even a logic language. I've been spending time >lately working with SPARK/Ada, a language designed for the construction of >ultra-reliable software. It's definitely changed the way I think about >programming... and that's a good thing. Unfortunately, that makes it extremely hard to learn C++ :-( Part of the reason is that there are a lot of hidden assumptions, which are neither specified clearly in the standard (or in some cases, at all) nor even mentioned in books and Web pages. If you know several different language approaches to the same issue, you will have hell working out which ones C++ permits. I do and I am not finding it easy. And I know C extremely well. Take my current problem with gslice in the STL. There are at least four common, sane, approaches to object copying in a class-based language, and several uncommon or insane ones. C++ enables the implementation of all four common ones[*], and many of the others. Unfortunately, there are semantic differences between them, and it is unclear exactly what semantics valarray and gslice_array are required to support. >And yes, I agree with what others are saying: C++ is not going anywhere >anytime soon. It is very much worth getting to know. I think that you mean 'away' not 'anywhere' :-) It's C that isn't going anywhere. [*] Deep copying, as a value. Shallow copying, as a value. Reference counting, without replication. Reference counting, with replication. Common insane ones include patchy support for copying, without reliable detection of the cases that don't work; that is what I seem to have. Regards, Nick Maclaren. -- [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]
From: Bo Persson on 23 Jun 2010 20:02 Peter C. Chapin wrote: > SG wrote: > >> If you want to be >> a good programmer you might want to learn more than one programming >> language anyway. > > Of course learning other languages takes time away from C++ and if > you want to really master C++ a lot of time studying it is > required. One must balance one's time. But if the OP is a young person just starting with this, there might be 30 or 40 years to learn other languages. :-) > > And yes, I agree with what others are saying: C++ is not going > anywhere anytime soon. It is very much worth getting to know. > You might also consider that it could be more profitable not to know just the same languages as everybody else. Being very popular (C#, Java) also means that there is more people competing for the jobs. If you have your own niche... Bo Persson -- [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]
From: joe on 24 Jun 2010 09:34 "DeMarcus" <use_my_alias_here(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4c2206bd$0$281$14726298(a)news.sunsite.dk... > On 2010-06-22 01:43, Anton Zakitniy wrote: >> Hello! >> Forgive me if my question is stupid and english is not native for me., >> but it worries me! >> I'm not very experienced >> programmer. I really like C + + and I want to become a good >> programmer. >> But something that bothers me. >> Will C + + language is enough demand in the near future? >> Will it continue to use many, many companies and many, many projects, >> not only for operating systems and games? >> I not want to C + + is outdated so soon and C# will take up positions >> at the C + +. >> I would be happy to know the answer from a programming guru! >> >> I wish you all the best! >> > > C++ is one of few internationally _standardized_ programming languages. You say that like it is a good thing! > You should be more afraid of the lifetime of languages owned by a > company. Look what happened to Visual Basic 6.0. It's now deprecated! > So what you are basically saying, C++ isn't the worst of 2 evils (?). The PL landscape is much larger than C++ vs. proprietary languages. IMO, C++ will morph or fork or become increasingly uncompetitive (chosen less and less by programmers, projects and organizations). -- [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]
From: joe on 24 Jun 2010 09:37 "Peter C. Chapin" <pcc482719(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:4c21fa3e$0$2366$4d3efbfe(a)news.sover.net... > SG wrote: > >> If you want to be >> a good programmer you might want to learn more than one programming >> language anyway. > > I want to echo this sentiment. Learning multiple languages is a must. Learning > certain languages can change the way you think about programming and that's > useful no matter what language you focus on. Even if you want to become a C++ > master (maybe especially if you want to become a C++ master), you should also > spend some time learning a dynamic language (Python?), a functional language > (OCaml? Scala?), and maybe even a logic language. I've been spending time > lately working with SPARK/Ada, a language designed for the construction of > ultra-reliable software. It's definitely changed the way I think about > programming... and that's a good thing. > I disagree. Doing something to learn something else is not an efficient use of time. To learn other paradigms, read some books on language design. No need to to get deep into other languages unless you are still deciding on which language to use primarily or for your domain. This is an area where it is beneficial to work from the higher-level surveys rather than use a bottom-up approach. Quick looks at other languages, noting their feature sets and how and when they are applied is good to do, but certainly you don't have to become a programmer in the language to assess it's viability. Use your time wisely. > Of course learning other languages takes time away from C++ and if you want to > really master C++ a lot of time studying it is required. One must balance > one's time. > > And yes, I agree with what others are saying: C++ is not going anywhere > anytime soon. It is very much worth getting to know. > Time will tell. Note that executives of failing businesses feign "everything is just fine" right up until the collapse. One cannot forget the attempt to fix a major design issue with C++: the failure of concepts. Another such thing too, but it escapes my mind right now. -- [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]
From: cpp4ever on 24 Jun 2010 09:37
On 06/23/2010 12:44 AM, cpp4ever wrote: > On 06/22/2010 12:43 AM, Anton Zakitniy wrote: >> Hello! >> Forgive me if my question is stupid and english is not native for me., >> but it worries me! >> I'm not very experienced >> programmer. I really like C + + and I want to become a good >> programmer. >> But something that bothers me. >> Will C + + language is enough demand in the near future? >> Will it continue to use many, many companies and many, many projects, >> not only for operating systems and games? >> I not want to C + + is outdated so soon and C# will take up positions >> at the C + +. >> I would be happy to know the answer from a programming guru! >> >> I wish you all the best! >> > > C++ is not about to be outdated any time soon, so that's not a worry. > But gaining the required knowledge and experience for companies to > consider employing you will be difficult. Most people will tell you to > get involved in freeware development, where you can gain valuable > experience and plenty of help. Even with my C++ knowledge I find it > hard, as I lack experience in multi threading and use of libraries like > Boost. So may I wish you every success, which I'm sure, with > persistence, will come. > > Regards > > JB > If you've ever used the KDE GUI front end on Linux, which is built on Qt/C++. Now Qt is a cross platform development kit owned by Nokia and is becoming more widely used every year. That's just one example of why I think C++ is here to stay for the foreseeable future. As a fan of C++ programming that is reassuring for me. Regards JB -- [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] |