iPods on plane trips (Was: Mp3 that plays files in folders?)
in [Mac Applications]
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From: AES on 13 Apr 2010 00:03 In article <yobwrwcf9jc.fsf(a)panix2.panix.com>, BreadWithSpam(a)fractious.net wrote: > AES <siegman(a)stanford.edu> writes: > > BreadWithSpam(a)fractious.net wr > > * "itunes keeps all your music files in a normal filesystem" > > > > -- but for no necessary reason _destroys_ the structure (i.e., the > > organization and the naming) of your whole file structure -- which is a > > key element of the whole system! This is a blessing? > > Actually, it does no such thing. You have the choice to have > iTunes manage where in your filesystem it keeps the files -- > or you may tell iTunes *not* to copy media files into iTunes > subdirectories, in which case the files stay wherever you > left them in the first place. Technically true -- iTunes only destroys your preferred file structure **by default, and with no warning to the naive user**. If you are somehow warned that this is the default behavior, you can search out the preference changes that are necessary to block this -- but Apple doesn't make it easy or obvious. > I think you're mischaracterising the tradeoffs. It's not about > open/standard versus proprietary. The iPad/iPhone play standard > media files -- EPUB, mp3, aac, mp4 h.264. The DRM layer may be > there if you buy media which has it, but that's your choice and > no different here than anywhere else. Does Apple allow you to load these standard media files onto the iPod, iPhone, or iPad and then play them from the iPod etc, **without first putting them thru iTunes on the loading device**? No matter how they're loaded onto it, does the iPod etc allow you to play these from the iPod **using any other player software**? Does the iPod etc allow you to load a folder containing playable audio files **plus other standard files (text, images, etc) that may be intellectually related to those files in some way** and then play the same audio files using *any* playing technique? Example: I have a master folder on my desktop or laptop containing several GB of audio files of speeches, text and PDF files of reports and articles, and jpeg images of photographs and maps, all on a certain topic. I'm going off to a meeting on that topic; I'd like to listen to some of the speeches, and if possible scan some of the documents and images, while on the plane; and I know there'll be a Mac that I can load the entire folder into and use temporarily if I need to do more than this at the other end. So, can I drag and drop a copy of that master folder from my desktop (or laptop) machine onto an iPad in *one* mouse action,, **without having to mess around breaking up the folder, entering each individual file into some other iApp, then pulling them out and onto the iPad individually**? If so, and I can then use the iPad as a multimedia reader for all those files (and other entertainment files) during the trip, without having to lug my laptop on the trip, iPad is clearly great and I'll buy one. If not . . .
From: Adrian C on 13 Apr 2010 04:34 On 13/04/2010 05:03, AES wrote: > > So, can I drag and drop a copy of that master folder from my desktop > (or laptop) machine onto an iPad in *one* mouse action,, **without > having to mess around breaking up the folder, entering each individual > file into some other iApp, then pulling them out and onto the iPad > individually**? On to iTunes, then sync - yes. > If so, and I can then use the iPad as a multimedia reader for all > those files (and other entertainment files) during the trip, without > having to lug my laptop on the trip, iPad is clearly great and I'll buy > one. If not . . . Don't bother. Use your laptop. Why spend money on something you are so religiously against? Fanatic's don't make good converts ;-) -- Adrian C
From: BreadWithSpam on 13 Apr 2010 05:49 AES <siegman(a)stanford.edu> writes: > BreadWithSpam(a)fractious.net wrote: > > AES <siegman(a)stanford.edu> writes: > > > BreadWithSpam(a)fractious.net wr > > > > * "itunes keeps all your music files in a normal filesystem" > > > > > > -- but for no necessary reason _destroys_ the structure (i.e., the > > > organization and the naming) of your whole file structure -- which is a > > > key element of the whole system! This is a blessing? > > > > Actually, it does no such thing. You have the choice to have > > iTunes manage where in your filesystem it keeps the files -- > > or you may tell iTunes *not* to copy media files into iTunes > > subdirectories, in which case the files stay wherever you > > left them in the first place. > > Technically true -- iTunes only destroys your preferred file > structure **by default, and with no warning to the naive user**. Um, no. By default, it *copies* files into it's hierarchy. Your originals are left wherever you copied them from. Note that this is regarding iTunes on your desktop machine, not the various media-playing apps on the iPhone/Pod/Pad (which are called "iPod" on the iPhone btw). > > I think you're mischaracterising the tradeoffs. It's not about > > open/standard versus proprietary. The iPad/iPhone play standard > > media files -- EPUB, mp3, aac, mp4 h.264. The DRM layer may be > > there if you buy media which has it, but that's your choice and > > no different here than anywhere else. > > Does Apple allow you to load these standard media files onto the > iPod, iPhone, or iPad and then play them from the iPod etc, **without > first putting them thru iTunes on the loading device**? iTunes acts as a conduit. Your iPhone shows up in iTunes on your desktop computer. You may drop files directly onto the iPhone there. The files are copied to the iPhone but are *not* copied into iTunes' directories or anything. > Example: I have a master folder on my desktop or laptop containing > several GB of audio files of speeches, text and PDF files of reports and > articles, and jpeg images of photographs and maps, all on a certain > topic. > > I'm going off to a meeting on that topic; I'd like to listen to some > of the speeches, and if possible scan some of the documents and images, > while on the plane; and I know there'll be a Mac that I can load the > entire folder into and use temporarily if I need to do more than this at > the other end. If you drop those files into iTunes and Photos, you'll certainly be able to read and listen to them on the iPhone, but you will have lost the grouping of them into a folder. If you drop all those files into a folder in your iDisk or in DropBox, you maintain your organization, in exchange for it being more unwieldy to navigate and play/read/etc those files on your iPhone. However, when you do navigate to the files via the iPhone dropbox or idisk app, and click on a given file, if it's in one of the standard formats that the iPhone understands, it will read/play/display just fine. (I don't know about ePub, but mp3, aac, mp4, text, PDF files all just work). > So, can I drag and drop a copy of that master folder from my desktop > (or laptop) machine onto an iPad in *one* mouse action,, **without > having to mess around breaking up the folder, entering each individual > file into some other iApp, then pulling them out and onto the iPad > individually**? Yes, assuming you're using something like iDisk or DropBox. Again, normally you will not see the file system structure you are thinking about on the iPhone. These third-party (well, iDisk isn't third-party, but it's also not there by default, and still requires a separate subscription) apps let you do so within their own app-space on the device. Note that, at least on the existing iPhone, the app-space is much more limited than the common media space. I believe it's less than 2GB, whereas on, say, a 64GB iPod Touch, you could put 60 GB of videos on there if you put them into the common media space. The notion of app space versus common media space again demonstrates that it's not about you seeing the filesystem but rather about using apps. Certain apps give you an interface into the common media space (music, videos, podcasts are all seen using any app which knows how to look at that space, but by default, you'd be using "iPod" and "Photos".) Other apps may see and even modify files in those common media spaces. Certain other apps let you mimic the notion of having a local filesystem, but sometimes it's not caching the entirety of that stuff there. DropBox, for example, lets you browse the filesystem withing your DropBox space, and flag a subset of your files within DropBox as "favorites" which are then cached locally on your iPhone. DropBox doesn't itself actually play/display/operate any of the files, but the iPhone OS itself actually lends DropBox the ability to do so. That's how your mp3 files will be playable from within it. (And your mp4 videos, and photos and pdfs and even word and excel docs, I think). > If so, and I can then use the iPad as a multimedia reader for all > those files (and other entertainment files) during the trip, without > having to lug my laptop on the trip, iPad is clearly great and I'll buy > one. If not . . . It's a very personal issue. I've traveled with iPhone, with netbook and with laptop. I can't work without the laptop, so that'll likely still come with me most of the time. Netbook was entirely worthless and never goes anywhere. Playing media on the laptop stinks. Battery life isn't great, the form factor stinks on a plane, etc. Laptop doesn't usually come out of the carry-on on the plane. So right now, if I want to listen or watch videos, my first choice is the iPhone. If/when I get an iPad, that'll be the first thing I pull out for entertainment on a plane or the sofa or whatever. Only you know your work style or needs. Have you actually gone to an Apple store and played with one yet? I suspect that if you're not sure about it, you could buy one, use it for a few weeks, and if it doesn't really do it for you, resell it for most of what you paid for it. -- Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
From: Tom Stiller on 13 Apr 2010 13:44
In article <siegman-3790AD.10411612042010(a)sciid-srv02.med.tufts.edu>, AES <siegman(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > I'd hoped the iPad would at least rise above and be free from this > approach -- that it would be, in some meaningful way, an open computer > device, like the ones Apple used to be devoted to. I'm still hoping -- > but not very hopefully. Perhaps with the Apple][, but in the Macintosh era I don't know that Apple is at all interested in "open" systems. They design hardware and software to perform the functions that, in their estimation, satisfy the needs of a class of users. So far, it has worked for Apple and for a large enough group of users to keep the company growing. They might widen the class enough to accommodate you, but I wouldn't count on it. -- Tom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF |