low-end scope
in [Design]
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From: krw on 3 Mar 2010 20:23 On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:00:53 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:04:13 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: >>>> On Mar 2, 5:22 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Paul Keinanen wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:32:34 -0800, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>>> I'd rather not have a scope that runs Windows and that needs two >>>>>>> boxes, drivers, a USB cable, and a mouse to do anything. A real scope >>>>>>> will most likely still be working 20 years from now. I like real >>>>>>> scopes with lots of real knobs. >>>>> Me, too :-) >>>>> >>>>>>> A USB scope would make sense in some data-centric application where >>>>>>> the waveform needs to be shipped into Matlab or some such in real >>>>>>> time. >>>>>>> John >>>>>> For me, built in battery power would be a critical requirement so that >>>>>> you could use it as easily as a multimeter. >>>>> Most DSOs such as mine come with a battery option. I didn't order that >>>>> but AFAIK it runs several hours on a charge. >>>>> >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>> >>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>>> >>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>>> That's one mighty expensive battery option: >>>> <http://www.tesales.com/commerce/ccpc1009-2859-instek-gds-2000-battery- >>>> option-for-gds--2000-seri-gds-2000-battery-gds-2000-battery.htm> >>> >>> Yeah, but you wouldn't want to know what mainstream manufacturers charge >>> for this stuff. It's a boutique accessory, very few people need it, >>> meaning low sales volume and somehow the NRE has to be amortized. Part >>> of life :-) >> >> >> Our FLIR ir viewer came with two batteries. They look like old >> camcorder batteries but have different terminals. They have finally >> died, and FLIR wants $250 each for replacements. Luckily, the thing >> can be run from 12 volts DC, so we just use it plugged in. Battery >> life sucked anyhow, even when the batteries were new. >> > >Maybe you could have it re-celled at a larger battery store. But battery >life won't improve, there are some things that just aren't meant to be >run on batteries. Instek claims the big GDS-2204 can run about 3h on a >charge but I guess that only applies if the battery is fairly new. >Charging is done gently, over 8h. It's a 73Wh battery. > > >> They want $600 for a new charger. >> > >No surprise there :-( That's what we get for our battery charger, though it does charge five at a time. I guess that's only $125 each. ;-)
From: miso on 4 Mar 2010 02:46 On Mar 3, 1:04 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > m...(a)sushi.com wrote: > > On Mar 2, 5:22 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Paul Keinanen wrote: > >>> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:32:34 -0800, John Larkin > >>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> [...] > > >>>> I'd rather not have a scope that runs Windows and that needs two > >>>> boxes, drivers, a USB cable, and a mouse to do anything. A real scope > >>>> will most likely still be working 20 years from now. I like real > >>>> scopes with lots of real knobs. > >> Me, too :-) > > >>>> A USB scope would make sense in some data-centric application where > >>>> the waveform needs to be shipped into Matlab or some such in real > >>>> time. > >>>> John > >>> For me, built in battery power would be a critical requirement so that > >>> you could use it as easily as a multimeter. > >> Most DSOs such as mine come with a battery option. I didn't order that > >> but AFAIK it runs several hours on a charge. > > >> [...] > > >> -- > >> Regards, Joerg > > >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >> Use another domain or send PM. > > > That's one mighty expensive battery option: > > <http://www.tesales.com/commerce/ccpc1009-2859-instek-gds-2000-battery- > > option-for-gds--2000-seri-gds-2000-battery-gds-2000-battery.htm> > > Yeah, but you wouldn't want to know what mainstream manufacturers charge > for this stuff. It's a boutique accessory, very few people need it, > meaning low sales volume and somehow the NRE has to be amortized. Part > of life :-) > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM. In the day, the Asian manufacturers would use wall warts since that was the item that got the UL and other approvals. Also the manufacturer of the wall wart was on the hook. I don't have any Taiwan test gear, but I'm surprised they take the AC into the box. If they designed with a DC input, making the box run off of batteries would be a snap. Regarding market, there are field service situations where you can't get line power. It does sound funny since you are testing electronics, and that has to be powered. But there are solar based installations. There is a break even point between the cost of getting power to a site versus solar. The advantage to solar is the environmental studies are only at the site. If you run power lines, there is always the chance a study will be required to see if any critters will be disturbed by your power pole installation. I haven't seen any solar cell sites yet, but solar repeater sites are common enough. Also solar powered remote sensing facilities are common. They use COTS satellite internet like Wild Blue.
From: Michael A. Terrell on 4 Mar 2010 09:21 "krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:00:53 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > > >John Larkin wrote: > >> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:04:13 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: > >>>> On Mar 2, 5:22 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>>> Paul Keinanen wrote: > >>>>>> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:32:34 -0800, John Larkin > >>>>>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>>>> [...] > >>>>> > >>>>>>> I'd rather not have a scope that runs Windows and that needs two > >>>>>>> boxes, drivers, a USB cable, and a mouse to do anything. A real scope > >>>>>>> will most likely still be working 20 years from now. I like real > >>>>>>> scopes with lots of real knobs. > >>>>> Me, too :-) > >>>>> > >>>>>>> A USB scope would make sense in some data-centric application where > >>>>>>> the waveform needs to be shipped into Matlab or some such in real > >>>>>>> time. > >>>>>>> John > >>>>>> For me, built in battery power would be a critical requirement so that > >>>>>> you could use it as easily as a multimeter. > >>>>> Most DSOs such as mine come with a battery option. I didn't order that > >>>>> but AFAIK it runs several hours on a charge. > >>>>> > >>>>> [...] > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>>> > >>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>>> That's one mighty expensive battery option: > >>>> <http://www.tesales.com/commerce/ccpc1009-2859-instek-gds-2000-battery- > >>>> option-for-gds--2000-seri-gds-2000-battery-gds-2000-battery.htm> > >>> > >>> Yeah, but you wouldn't want to know what mainstream manufacturers charge > >>> for this stuff. It's a boutique accessory, very few people need it, > >>> meaning low sales volume and somehow the NRE has to be amortized. Part > >>> of life :-) > >> > >> > >> Our FLIR ir viewer came with two batteries. They look like old > >> camcorder batteries but have different terminals. They have finally > >> died, and FLIR wants $250 each for replacements. Luckily, the thing > >> can be run from 12 volts DC, so we just use it plugged in. Battery > >> life sucked anyhow, even when the batteries were new. > >> > > > >Maybe you could have it re-celled at a larger battery store. But battery > >life won't improve, there are some things that just aren't meant to be > >run on batteries. Instek claims the big GDS-2204 can run about 3h on a > >charge but I guess that only applies if the battery is fairly new. > >Charging is done gently, over 8h. It's a 73Wh battery. > > > > > >> They want $600 for a new charger. > >> > > > >No surprise there :-( > > That's what we get for our battery charger, though it does charge five at a > time. I guess that's only $125 each. ;-) 5*125=625 -- Greed is the root of all eBay.
From: Joerg on 4 Mar 2010 11:19 miso(a)sushi.com wrote: > On Mar 3, 1:04 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> m...(a)sushi.com wrote: >>> On Mar 2, 5:22 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Paul Keinanen wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:32:34 -0800, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>>> I'd rather not have a scope that runs Windows and that needs two >>>>>> boxes, drivers, a USB cable, and a mouse to do anything. A real scope >>>>>> will most likely still be working 20 years from now. I like real >>>>>> scopes with lots of real knobs. >>>> Me, too :-) >>>>>> A USB scope would make sense in some data-centric application where >>>>>> the waveform needs to be shipped into Matlab or some such in real >>>>>> time. >>>>>> John >>>>> For me, built in battery power would be a critical requirement so that >>>>> you could use it as easily as a multimeter. >>>> Most DSOs such as mine come with a battery option. I didn't order that >>>> but AFAIK it runs several hours on a charge. >>>> [...] >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> That's one mighty expensive battery option: >>> <http://www.tesales.com/commerce/ccpc1009-2859-instek-gds-2000-battery- >>> option-for-gds--2000-seri-gds-2000-battery-gds-2000-battery.htm> >> Yeah, but you wouldn't want to know what mainstream manufacturers charge >> for this stuff. It's a boutique accessory, very few people need it, >> meaning low sales volume and somehow the NRE has to be amortized. Part >> of life :-) >> >> -- >> Regards, Joerg >> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM. > > In the day, the Asian manufacturers would use wall warts since that > was the item that got the UL and other approvals. Also the > manufacturer of the wall wart was on the hook. I don't have any Taiwan > test gear, but I'm surprised they take the AC into the box. If they > designed with a DC input, making the box run off of batteries would be > a snap. > But not scopes. I have never seen any serious scopes with wall warts. > Regarding market, there are field service situations where you can't > get line power. It does sound funny since you are testing electronics, > and that has to be powered. But there are solar based installations. > There is a break even point between the cost of getting power to a > site versus solar. The advantage to solar is the environmental studies > are only at the site. If you run power lines, there is always the > chance a study will be required to see if any critters will be > disturbed by your power pole installation. > Yes, or some weird group claims the lines are creating "electrical smog" :-) However, for under $100 you can get a little inverter suitcase that provides over 100Wh worth of mains power, or more if you drag in a deep cycle battery. > I haven't seen any solar cell sites yet, but solar repeater sites are > common enough. Also solar powered remote sensing facilities are > common. They use COTS satellite internet like Wild Blue. Still, the only situation I can see where you truly need batteries in a scope is when climbing a pole. And that's rather rare with a scope, although one Rhode&Schwarz spectrum analyzer came with a serious backpack. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 4 Mar 2010 11:33
Michael A. Terrell wrote: > "krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: >> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:00:53 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:04:13 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: >>>>>> On Mar 2, 5:22 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> Paul Keinanen wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:32:34 -0800, John Larkin >>>>>>>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd rather not have a scope that runs Windows and that needs two >>>>>>>>> boxes, drivers, a USB cable, and a mouse to do anything. A real scope >>>>>>>>> will most likely still be working 20 years from now. I like real >>>>>>>>> scopes with lots of real knobs. >>>>>>> Me, too :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A USB scope would make sense in some data-centric application where >>>>>>>>> the waveform needs to be shipped into Matlab or some such in real >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>> For me, built in battery power would be a critical requirement so that >>>>>>>> you could use it as easily as a multimeter. >>>>>>> Most DSOs such as mine come with a battery option. I didn't order that >>>>>>> but AFAIK it runs several hours on a charge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>>>>> That's one mighty expensive battery option: >>>>>> <http://www.tesales.com/commerce/ccpc1009-2859-instek-gds-2000-battery- >>>>>> option-for-gds--2000-seri-gds-2000-battery-gds-2000-battery.htm> >>>>> Yeah, but you wouldn't want to know what mainstream manufacturers charge >>>>> for this stuff. It's a boutique accessory, very few people need it, >>>>> meaning low sales volume and somehow the NRE has to be amortized. Part >>>>> of life :-) >>>> >>>> Our FLIR ir viewer came with two batteries. They look like old >>>> camcorder batteries but have different terminals. They have finally >>>> died, and FLIR wants $250 each for replacements. Luckily, the thing >>>> can be run from 12 volts DC, so we just use it plugged in. Battery >>>> life sucked anyhow, even when the batteries were new. >>>> >>> Maybe you could have it re-celled at a larger battery store. But battery >>> life won't improve, there are some things that just aren't meant to be >>> run on batteries. Instek claims the big GDS-2204 can run about 3h on a >>> charge but I guess that only applies if the battery is fairly new. >>> Charging is done gently, over 8h. It's a 73Wh battery. >>> >>> >>>> They want $600 for a new charger. >>>> >>> No surprise there :-( >> That's what we get for our battery charger, though it does charge five at a >> time. I guess that's only $125 each. ;-) > > > 5*125=625 > Keith was probably including the credit card merchant fees :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |