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From: George Jefferson on 15 Apr 2010 09:09
BTW, a capacitor is a special type of memristor(at least in an RC circuit):


V = V0*(1 - exp(-t/RC))
I = V0/R*exp(-t/RC)
Q = C*V

==> I = V0/R - Q/C/R

==> V/I = Q/C/(V0/R - Q/C/R)

Hence M(Q) = V/I = Q/C/I.

This is to be expected since the "resistance" of a cap depends on how
charged it is(relatively to it's capacity).

M(Q) = QR/(CV - Q)

In fact if we extend resistance into a generalized resistance we can cover
just about any device(since they all have V/I characteristics even if
dependent on time).

If, say we have R(Q) instead of R,

M(Q) = Q*R(Q)/(CV - Q)

Lets suppose M(Q) = R(Q) then Q = CV - Q ==> Q = CV/2. Which is exactly what
happens whence you have two capacitors in series. So it is constistent.

We get a similar but more complex result for an RL circuit if we fudge a
bit.







From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax on 15 Apr 2010 17:29
On 13/04/2010 20:00, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Wanderer
> <wanderer(a)dialup4less.com> wrote in
> <b74e200b-933e-4848-a9b4-a9a66a6238d4(a)f17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>:
>
>> HP found a way to make memristors
>>
>> http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/design/the-mysterious-memristor
>>
>> and I'm trying to make heads or tails of them. If they came in 0805
>> packages and you could buy them from digi-key, how would you spec
>> them? They say it has the units of ohms but if its a constant its just
>> a resistor, so you can't spec a 3 ohm memristor. Can you spec a 3
>> Weber/coulomb memristor? Doing unit analysis on the equations
>>
>> R = dv/di , C = dq/dv, L = dphi/di, M = dphi/dq, V = dphi/dt, I = dq/
>> dt
>>
>> I get
>> RC = M/L = idt/di has units of time
>> L/R = CM = vdt/dv has units of time
>> LC = (idt)(vdt)/(dvdi) has units of time squared
>> R/M (idtdv)/(vdtdi) is unit less
>>
>> Does this thing break traditional circuit analysis?
>
> I did a read very simple explanation:
> The electrical current moves some atoms in a grid.
> that changes the resistance permanently.
> Reversing the current moves the atoms back.
> This can be done very fast (much faster then programming FLASH).
> I am sure that the chips that will be marketed will have a controller build in,
> and you will just be able to interface with it in the usual way.
>

It seems like the tech that will drive all before it.
And HP has shown they work down to 3nm
Also perfect for building neural nets.
Goodbye flash and phase change memory...

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
From: Bill Sloman on 15 Apr 2010 21:47
On Apr 15, 7:02 am, Robert Baer <robertb...(a)localnet.com> wrote:
> Bill Slomanwrote:
> > On Apr 14, 7:51 am, Robert Baer <robertb...(a)localnet.com> wrote:
> >> Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Wanderer
> >>> <wande...(a)dialup4less.com> wrote in
> >>> <b74e200b-933e-4848-a9b4-a9a66a623...(a)f17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>:
> >>>> HP found a way to make memristors
> >>>>http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/design/the-mysterious-memristor
> >>>> and I'm trying to make heads or tails of them. If they came in 0805
> >>>> packages and you could buy them from digi-key, how would you spec
> >>>> them? They say it has the units of ohms but if its a constant its just
> >>>> a resistor, so you can't spec a 3 ohm memristor. Can you spec a 3
> >>>> Weber/coulomb memristor? Doing unit analysis on the equations
> >>>> R = dv/di , C = dq/dv, L = dphi/di, M = dphi/dq, V = dphi/dt, I = dq/
> >>>> dt
> >>>> I get
> >>>> RC = M/L = idt/di has units of time
> >>>> L/R = CM = vdt/dv has units of time
> >>>> LC = (idt)(vdt)/(dvdi) has units of time squared
> >>>> R/M (idtdv)/(vdtdi) is unit less
> >>>> Does this thing break traditional circuit analysis?
> >>> I did a read very simple explanation:
> >>> The electrical current moves some atoms in a grid.
> >>> that changes the resistance permanently.
> >>> Reversing the current moves the atoms back.
> >>> This can be done very fast (much faster then programming FLASH).
> >>> I am sure that the chips that will be marketed will have a controller build in,
> >>> and you will just be able to interface with it in the usual way.
> >> ..something like a Coulomb meter or one of the definitions of current?
> >>    Like the amount of silver plated per unit of time?
> >>    And this is claimed to be new?
>
> > Do pay attention.
>
> > The apparent "resistance"  of a Coulomb meter doesn't change with the
> > amount of metal that has been plated out; the memistor has a "memory"
> > and its "resistance" reflects its history.
>
> > --
> >Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
>
>    Are you trying to tell me that the silver plating cell originally
> devised to measure / be a current standard does _not_ change its
> resistance as the silver gets plated / unplated?

Not so that you'd notice. The resistance of the silver layer is lot
lower than the "resistance" of the solution from which it is being
plated out.

In fact the voltage drop between the electrodes involved is dominated
by other effects, and the ohmic resistance of the solutions - while
quite a bit higher than the resistance of the layer of silver - would
be hard to isolate from the other processes involved.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Robert Baer on 16 Apr 2010 03:57
George Jefferson wrote:
> BTW, a capacitor is a special type of memristor(at least in an RC circuit):
>
>
> V = V0*(1 - exp(-t/RC))
> I = V0/R*exp(-t/RC)
> Q = C*V
>
> ==> I = V0/R - Q/C/R
>
> ==> V/I = Q/C/(V0/R - Q/C/R)
>
> Hence M(Q) = V/I = Q/C/I.
>
> This is to be expected since the "resistance" of a cap depends on how
> charged it is(relatively to it's capacity).
>
> M(Q) = QR/(CV - Q)
>
> In fact if we extend resistance into a generalized resistance we can
> cover just about any device(since they all have V/I characteristics even
> if dependent on time).
>
> If, say we have R(Q) instead of R,
>
> M(Q) = Q*R(Q)/(CV - Q)
>
> Lets suppose M(Q) = R(Q) then Q = CV - Q ==> Q = CV/2. Which is exactly
> what happens whence you have two capacitors in series. So it is
> constistent.
>
> We get a similar but more complex result for an RL circuit if we fudge a
> bit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
MMM! Send me a pound of fudge!
From: Robert Baer on 16 Apr 2010 03:59
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> On 13/04/2010 20:00, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>> Wanderer
>> <wanderer(a)dialup4less.com> wrote in
>> <b74e200b-933e-4848-a9b4-a9a66a6238d4(a)f17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> HP found a way to make memristors
>>>
>>> http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/design/the-mysterious-memristor
>>>
>>> and I'm trying to make heads or tails of them. If they came in 0805
>>> packages and you could buy them from digi-key, how would you spec
>>> them? They say it has the units of ohms but if its a constant its just
>>> a resistor, so you can't spec a 3 ohm memristor. Can you spec a 3
>>> Weber/coulomb memristor? Doing unit analysis on the equations
>>>
>>> R = dv/di , C = dq/dv, L = dphi/di, M = dphi/dq, V = dphi/dt, I = dq/
>>> dt
>>>
>>> I get
>>> RC = M/L = idt/di has units of time
>>> L/R = CM = vdt/dv has units of time
>>> LC = (idt)(vdt)/(dvdi) has units of time squared
>>> R/M (idtdv)/(vdtdi) is unit less
>>>
>>> Does this thing break traditional circuit analysis?
>>
>> I did a read very simple explanation:
>> The electrical current moves some atoms in a grid.
>> that changes the resistance permanently.
>> Reversing the current moves the atoms back.
>> This can be done very fast (much faster then programming FLASH).
>> I am sure that the chips that will be marketed will have a controller
>> build in,
>> and you will just be able to interface with it in the usual way.
>>
>
> It seems like the tech that will drive all before it.
> And HP has shown they work down to 3nm
> Also perfect for building neural nets.
> Goodbye flash and phase change memory...
>
Phase change memory was a joke the first time the idiot thought of it
seriously.
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