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From: Arved Sandstrom on 13 Mar 2010 08:35
Stefan Ram wrote:
> What is the neutral American English pronunciation used by
> programmers, when they say �Math.sin�?
>
> I assume that I already know the sequence of consonants used
> while saying this:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilabial_nasal
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_fricative
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal
>
> But which are the vowels used for �a� and �i�?
>
> Is �sin� pronounced like �sine�?
>
> Is �sin�, when meaning �sine�, pronounced like �sin� (in the
> sens of �A violation of a moral or religious law�)?
>
> Is �Math� pronounced like the start of �mathematics�?
>
> Is �Math� pronounced in the same way as �path� (except
> for the initial consonant)?
>
> Is the �.� converted to a word and then also pronounced,
> if so, to which word?
>
> TIA
>
I've never heard anyone - math-type, engineer, physicist, programmer -
ever say anything other than "sine" for "sin".

As for pronouncing "math", where I'm from we pronounce "path" and the
start of "mathematics" the same way. :-) There's a difference somewhere? :-)

AHS
From: rossum on 13 Mar 2010 09:57
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:35:08 GMT, Arved Sandstrom
<dcest61(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>Stefan Ram wrote:
>> What is the neutral American English pronunciation used by
>> programmers, when they say »Math.sin«?
>>
>> I assume that I already know the sequence of consonants used
>> while saying this:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilabial_nasal
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_fricative
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal
>>
>> But which are the vowels used for »a« and »i«?
>>
>> Is »sin« pronounced like »sine«?
>>
>> Is »sin«, when meaning »sine«, pronounced like »sin« (in the
>> sens of »A violation of a moral or religious law«)?
>>
>> Is »Math« pronounced like the start of »mathematics«?
>>
>> Is »Math« pronounced in the same way as »path« (except
>> for the initial consonant)?
>>
>> Is the ».« converted to a word and then also pronounced,
>> if so, to which word?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>I've never heard anyone - math-type, engineer, physicist, programmer -
>ever say anything other than "sine" for "sin".
>
>As for pronouncing "math", where I'm from we pronounce "path" and the
>start of "mathematics" the same way. :-) There's a difference somewhere? :-)
>
>AHS
Southern English: "path" ==> parth/paath (long-A)

Northern English: "path" ==> path (short-A)

"mathematics" always has a short-A

For a look at the intricacies of English pronunciation google "ghoti",
pronounced 'fish'.

rossum



From: BGB / cr88192 on 13 Mar 2010 10:19

"Arved Sandstrom" <dcest61(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gwMmn.68043$Db2.64462(a)edtnps83...
> Stefan Ram wrote:
>> What is the neutral American English pronunciation used by
>> programmers, when they say �Math.sin�?
>>
>> I assume that I already know the sequence of consonants used
>> while saying this:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilabial_nasal
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_fricative
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal
>>
>> But which are the vowels used for �a� and �i�?
>>

/{/ as in "cat" and "ran".
/I/ as in "hit" and "city".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-open_front_unrounded_vowel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-close_near-front_unrounded_vowel


>> Is �sin� pronounced like �sine�?
>>
>> Is �sin�, when meaning �sine�, pronounced like �sin� (in the
>> sens of �A violation of a moral or religious law�)?
>>
>> Is �Math� pronounced like the start of �mathematics�?
>>
>> Is �Math� pronounced in the same way as �path� (except
>> for the initial consonant)?
>>
>> Is the �.� converted to a word and then also pronounced,
>> if so, to which word? TIA
>>
> I've never heard anyone - math-type, engineer, physicist, programmer -
> ever say anything other than "sine" for "sin".
>

"sine" is the meaning, but "sin" is the way one says those letters, so it
depends on the reader.

it is like seening "ln" and saying "natural log" or, effectively, "elen"
("/ElEn/" or "/ElUn/").
or, "cos" as "cosine" or as "/kos/".

usually, for saying stuff, it is not meaningful to map to semantics prior to
mapping to words.

"Math.sin" => "math dot sin" (or "math point sin", ...).

"Math.sin();" => "math dot sin open-paren close-paren semicolon".
....

"*s++" => "random /Es/ plus plus" or "star /Es/ plus plus".
....


> As for pronouncing "math", where I'm from we pronounce "path" and the
> start of "mathematics" the same way. :-) There's a difference somewhere?
> :-)
>

yep, they are pronounced the same...

"/m{T/" and "/m{TEm{tIks/" (although I guess "/m{DEm{tIks/", ... would also
work, although /T/ and /D/ are generally not distinguished in English).


> AHS


From: Arved Sandstrom on 13 Mar 2010 10:34
BGB / cr88192 wrote:
> "Arved Sandstrom" <dcest61(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gwMmn.68043$Db2.64462(a)edtnps83...
>> Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> What is the neutral American English pronunciation used by
>>> programmers, when they say �Math.sin�?
>>>
>>> I assume that I already know the sequence of consonants used
>>> while saying this:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilabial_nasal
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_fricative
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal
>>>
>>> But which are the vowels used for �a� and �i�?
>>>
>
> /{/ as in "cat" and "ran".
> /I/ as in "hit" and "city".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-open_front_unrounded_vowel
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-close_near-front_unrounded_vowel
>
>
>>> Is �sin� pronounced like �sine�?
>>>
>>> Is �sin�, when meaning �sine�, pronounced like �sin� (in the
>>> sens of �A violation of a moral or religious law�)?
>>>
>>> Is �Math� pronounced like the start of �mathematics�?
>>>
>>> Is �Math� pronounced in the same way as �path� (except
>>> for the initial consonant)?
>>>
>>> Is the �.� converted to a word and then also pronounced,
>>> if so, to which word? TIA
>>>
>> I've never heard anyone - math-type, engineer, physicist, programmer -
>> ever say anything other than "sine" for "sin".
>>
>
> "sine" is the meaning, but "sin" is the way one says those letters, so it
> depends on the reader.
>
> it is like seening "ln" and saying "natural log" or, effectively, "elen"
> ("/ElEn/" or "/ElUn/").
> or, "cos" as "cosine" or as "/kos/".
>
> usually, for saying stuff, it is not meaningful to map to semantics prior to
> mapping to words.
[ SNIP ]

Come to think of it, "ln" is another good one - I've almost always heard
it pronounced "lon" or "lawn". If someone says "el en" then they very
likely have no idea what it means.

For "cos" not many folks I know, including myself, have the patience to
always say "cosine", but "koss" doesn't sound quite right either, so we
end up with "kose". But I guess some folks say "koss"; I won't say it's odd.

AHS
From: BGB / cr88192 on 13 Mar 2010 10:40

"rossum" <rossum48(a)coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:ag9np5d88fijcmcgit451s70hvv5t5ui2n(a)4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:35:08 GMT, Arved Sandstrom
> <dcest61(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> What is the neutral American English pronunciation used by
>>> programmers, when they say �Math.sin�?
>>>
>>> I assume that I already know the sequence of consonants used
>>> while saying this:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilabial_nasal
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_fricative
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal
>>>
>>> But which are the vowels used for �a� and �i�?
>>>
>>> Is �sin� pronounced like �sine�?
>>>
>>> Is �sin�, when meaning �sine�, pronounced like �sin� (in the
>>> sens of �A violation of a moral or religious law�)?
>>>
>>> Is �Math� pronounced like the start of �mathematics�?
>>>
>>> Is �Math� pronounced in the same way as �path� (except
>>> for the initial consonant)?
>>>
>>> Is the �.� converted to a word and then also pronounced,
>>> if so, to which word?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>I've never heard anyone - math-type, engineer, physicist, programmer -
>>ever say anything other than "sine" for "sin".
>>
>>As for pronouncing "math", where I'm from we pronounce "path" and the
>>start of "mathematics" the same way. :-) There's a difference somewhere?
>>:-)
>>
>>AHS
> Southern English: "path" ==> parth/paath (long-A)
>
> Northern English: "path" ==> path (short-A)
>
> "mathematics" always has a short-A
>
> For a look at the intricacies of English pronunciation google "ghoti",
> pronounced 'fish'.
>

except that an actual English speaker will see it and see it as "goaty"...

just because somone somewhere can claim that this has a particular
pronunciation, if actual people will not pronounce it that way upon seeing
it, then it is not a particularly valid example of the pronunciation rules.


as I see it, pronunciation is essentially a dictionary-lookup scheme
anyways, and so edge cases don't necessarily constitute valid general rules.

the words essentially have 2 semi-unrelated representations:
their photetic representation, or the valid lists of phones which could be
recognized as a particular word;
their graphical representation, which is can be regarded as a glyph
essentially independent of the way it is said (at best, it provides a hint
as to the phonetic form, but it is not an exact mapping).

really, one can see that spelling is not too much unlike hanzi / kanji,
where the lithographic form is fixed, but some fluidity is allowed as to
which sounds it is associated, which may be based on dialect / language,
context, and other factors, such as with "polish" (the polish was shiny) and
"Polish" (the furniture was Polish), ...

so, really, reading/writing English, and speaking English, could be validly
regarded as different activities depending on different skill-sets (much
like how one needs no real knowledge of Mandarin to understand the meaning
of hanzi...).


or such...



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