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From: Martin Brown on 3 Sep 2009 06:24
Joerg wrote:
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes:

>>> True, all you need to do is identify the heavy hitters.
>>
>> Well, it's a matter of identifying the circuits with the highest
>> *average* use over time, then figuring out which of those can be
>> reduced, and by how much, and how much the upgrades will cost.

And it is definitely worth finding any bits and pieces that are
gratuitously adding to your baseload without contributing anything at
all. I found that when I started monitoring I had a base load of 250W.
Total baseload now is half that.

This included 20W gratuitous standby for the TV (digital tuner eats
power even when the set is off). Now on a live only when remote IR
triggers it socket. 20W for the Fax machine (last inbound genuine fax
over 2 years ago - not counting rolls worth of junk faxes). A couple of
old modem wall warts hiding behind my desk. And one PC sound system that
draws 20W continuously whether switched on or off (click on off volume
knob). It appears only to switch off the "on/off" LED!

Surprisingly the big hifi power amplifier consumes <500mW in standby,
and my old VHF tuner is pretty frugal at 6W when on.

>> Replacing our inefficient fridge is a bad idea, because the payoff is
>> longer than the expected life of the new fridge. Replacing light
>> bulbs makes sense if you know which light bulbs are on most often.
>> Etc.
>
> Yep. conservation efforts where investments are required usually only
> make sense with heavy hitters. Heater, A/C, insulation, pumps, computers.

Insulation has a very fast payback in most climates. And finding the
things that use the most total power continuously is worthwhile.

>> The plan is to let the logs accumulate for a month or two, so we have
>> a whole billing period in logs, and compare that bill (probably
>> October's) to the logs and see how it all works out.
>>
>>> I know it's painful but that is where the lion's share of your
>>> savings potential is located.
>>
>> Perhaps. If I can automate the power savings, and make good choices
>> about upgrades, yes. It could easily turn into a money pit though.
>
> Actually I invested nothing. The turn-off features came with the
> equipment. Even the soldering station has a shut-off. Somehow it
> magically detects when not in use for more than xx minutes.

Increasingly this is possible. The claims made against standby devices
are somewhat bogus. It is well within the design parameters to have
something that can sit in standby at much less than 500mW. However,
there are plenty of bad designs that are in standby at 10-20W or more.

It is worth having one of the sensitive LCD display plug that measures
the appliance consumption in real time as well as a total consumption
monitor. If you use the two together shaving 10% off the total
electricity bill is easy.

It is a major saving for buildings where heating might otherwise be left
on over the weekend by accident to have a realtime display of total
power by the exit door.
>
> The only real investments were very small. Two dozen or so energy saver
> bulbs, floodlights, and such.

They are win-win. So are the devices that see an IR signal from the
remote and apply power to the unit with poor standby performance. Then
when the device goes to standby it drops power off completely. For
something that runs at 20-30W continuously payback is about a year.

Regards,
Martin Brown
From: Ross Herbert on 3 Sep 2009 23:11
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:49:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote:

:
:DJ Delorie wrote:
:>
:> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> writes:
:> > Not if it isn't in a usable range.
:>
:> It goes around once every 10-60 seconds, I can scale that easily,
:> either by counting multiple revolutions (if it's fast) or using the
:> 0-100 marks on the edge (if it's slow). I don't need to be *that*
:> accurate ;-)
:
:
: Mine is all digital. It is on the far side of the driveway, and out
:in the hot Florida sun or pouring rain. It is over 100 feet from the
:nearest workbench.


I was about to raise the question of Mike's project in relation to electronic
meters which don't have a rotating disk. These meters have an output a pulse for
use with energy management devices so I would imagine it might be easy to add
this type of input to the project. For example, my meter is a Landis + Gyr
EM3300 3 phase Import/Export meter (grid interactive solar PV installation).
http://www.landisgyr.com/ap/en/pub/products.cfm?eventProducts=products.ProductDetails&ID=135&catID=61
From: Ross Herbert on 3 Sep 2009 23:45
Apology to DJ for incorrectly attributing the project to "Mike". Another
"senior's moment":-)
From: DJ Delorie on 4 Sep 2009 00:10

Ross Herbert <rherber1(a)bigpond.net.au> writes:
> These meters have an output a pulse for use with energy management
> devices

The ADE chip I'm using has that pulse output pin too. Might even be
the same chip those meters use - that's what those chips are for.
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