qooxlisp live - 3MB bloatware
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From: RobG on 7 Jun 2010 19:27 On Jun 8, 6:26 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the > site name): > > http://www.teamalgebra.com/ With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page. Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load. Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time on any system. Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I can't get it to do anything, are there instructions? [...] > Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to > acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play > much. "Intermittent" is an understatement, it doesn't work at all. > I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the > thing into submission. You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks. [...] > --http://www.stuckonalgebra.com Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors. > "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." > Macworld Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious. According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version, which left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link Software" in April 1991. There seems to be a pattern here that does not leave a good impression. 1. <URL: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/macworld.html > -- Rob
From: Kenneth Tilton on 7 Jun 2010 21:27 RobG wrote: > On Jun 8, 6:26 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the >> site name): >> >> http://www.teamalgebra.com/ > > With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page. Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version has a noscript chunk to help you out. > > Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load. I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s. What browser/OS? > Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time > on any system. No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s. Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not nothing, but should be even better. > > Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I > can't get it to do anything, are there instructions? I am starting to think it's my bug. The next release will have a "Search" button I suspect will work so you can at least have some fun. I'll try adding some instructions to the page itself. > > > [...] >> Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to >> acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play >> much. > > "Intermittent" is an understatement, it doesn't work at all. I know the feeling, but messing around at one point it did start working in both. > > >> I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the >> thing into submission. > > You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks. I try. > > > [...] >> --http://www.stuckonalgebra.com > > Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it > is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors. Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder. > > >> "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." >> Macworld > > Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious. You never heard of Macworld? > > According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version, The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop. > which > left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a > Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a > superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link > Software" in April 1991. If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it. -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: Scott Sauyet on 7 Jun 2010 21:55 Kenneth Tilton wrote: > RobG wrote: >> On Jun 8, 6:26 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the >>> site name): > >>> http://www.teamalgebra.com/ > >> With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page. > > Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version > has a noscript chunk to help you out. > >> Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load. > > I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the > server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s. I tested with a very fast connection and fast computer, and it never loaded in less than 8 seconds. Testing now at home over a mediocre DSL, it's around 100 seconds on an empty cache. >> Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time >> on any system. > > No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that > that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s. > > Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not > nothing, but should be even better. There are regular complaints on this group about the size of a 70KB (unzipped) file. Is all that really necessary for this relatively simple page? >>> I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the >>> thing into submission. > >> You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks. > > I try. You try to what, annoy the hell out of everyone here? >> [...] >>> --http://www.stuckonalgebra.com > >> Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it >> is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors. > > Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder. Or better yet, the person who posted it as an example... >>> "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." >>> Macworld > >> Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious. > > You never heard of Macworld? http://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+best+Algebra+tutorial+program+I+have+seen%22+site:macworld.com returns no results... Do you have a more detailed reference? >> According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version, > > The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop. >> which >> left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a >> Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a >> superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link >> Software" in April 1991. > > If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it. Are you telling us that this ran on a Mac web browser in 1991? -- Scott
From: RobG on 7 Jun 2010 23:14 On Jun 8, 11:27 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > RobG wrote: > > On Jun 8, 6:26 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the > >> site name): > > >> http://www.teamalgebra.com/ > > > With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page. > > Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version > has a noscript chunk to help you out. Good, but even better would be to have a plain HTML page that at least has some information about what the site is about, what it is supposed to demonstrate and some examples of its use. > > Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load. > > I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the > server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s. As Thomas said, if you think 3MB will take 5 seconds to load, you want approximately 25Mb to download at about 5mb/s. That's not including the 355 HTTP requests, intermediate browser processing, dropped packets, headers, etc. You are depending on caching quite a bit. Your (missing) introduction page could explain some of that so at least users are aware of the possible lengthy delay before making a decision about proceeding. > What browser/OS? The browsers are below, the OS is Windows XP. > > Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time > > on any system. > > No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that > that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s. What do you mean by "reset"? Restart? Close a tab and re-open? Clear the cache? > Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not > nothing, but should be even better. That should help, but will still require quite a bit of time and users should be warned so they can make their own decision about whether or not to proceed. > > Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I > > can't get it to do anything, are there instructions? > > I am starting to think it's my bug. The next release will have a > "Search" button I suspect will work so you can at least have some fun. > I'll try adding some instructions to the page itself. Or to an introduction page that can be left open in another tab or window at the user's discretion. [...] > >> --http://www.stuckonalgebra.com [...] > >> "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." > >> Macworld > > > Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious. > > You never heard of Macworld? Yes, but the attribution is incomplete (and the reader is left wondering why). > > According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version, > > The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop. Whether or not there are browsers for Mac OS is irrelevant. I can't find a link to a web version on that site, all links eventually lead to a download page that states: | Pick your operating system: | 1. Windows XP | 2. Windows Vista or Windows 7 | 3. Mac OS X (coming soon!) The site does not offer a browser version and *states* that there is no Mac version. Whether there are browsers for Mac OS is irrelevant at this point. > > which > > left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a > > Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a > > superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link > > Software" in April 1991. > > If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it. The *review* is superficial and nearly 20 years old, before the WWW was invented. Even if there is a web-based version available now, the review is of an entirely different product from an eon ago and therefore irrelevant. It's like IBM claiming technical competence based on a 1930s review of their electric accounting machine[1]. 1. <URL: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV9012.html > -- Rob
From: Adam Harvey on 8 Jun 2010 02:09 On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 16:27:49 -0700, RobG wrote: > On Jun 8, 6:26 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the >> site name): >> >> http://www.teamalgebra.com/ > > With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page. > > Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load. Downloading > 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time on any system. For an additional data point (and example of exactly why having 350+ dependencies for a single page is a problem): it took 3 minutes, 12 seconds here. I have a rather fast Internet connection, but since I'm geographically a long way from the server, each request has a latency in the 275 millisecond range before anything useful is transferred. That adds up rather quickly with that many requests. > Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I > can't get it to do anything, are there instructions? It seems to work for me in Firefox 3.6, although I don't have a clue what it's actually supposed to do. Adam
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