so-called updates
in [Windows XP Basics]
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From: Rick Merrill on 2 Mar 2010 14:21 glee wrote: > "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message > news:eUC4k7iuKHA.5812(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote: >>> On 01-03-10 20:28, Unknown wrote: >>>> You should definitely be using a firewall. I cannot remember anyone >>>> having >>>> update problems >>> >>> That's more or less describing the problem with MS firewall(s), they >>> don't notify you when an MS application wants access. >>> There should be no exemptions but MS made huge holes in their own >>> firewall. >>> >>>> caused by the Windows firewall. But, there have been many update >>>> problems >>>> caused by non-MS >>>> firewalls. Your choice of course. >>> >>> It is mostly not the firewall causing the problems but applications that >>> need unsafe access. >>> >>>> "Rick Merrill"<Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >>>> news:ufa4WNXuKHA.5940(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>> Why on earth would you disable Windows firewall? >>>>>> That should remain on but others turned off. >>>>> >>>>> That's Not necessarily so. >>>>> >> >> For example, I have an external (h/w) firewall. >> For example, I'm running Microsoft Security Essentials - I think that >> alone means one doesn't need the old Xp-Firewall - what do you say? > > MSE has nothing to do with a firewall...it is an anti-virus with some > anti-spyware capability, just like Avira or Avast or AVG or any of the > for-fee AV apps. Not running at least the Windows Firewall is just poor > practice. > > What hardware firewall do you refer to....your NAT router? BEFSR41 and TZ170
From: glee on 2 Mar 2010 15:37 "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message news:OVgJA2juKHA.5936(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > glee wrote: >> "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:eUC4k7iuKHA.5812(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote: >>>> On 01-03-10 20:28, Unknown wrote: >>>>> You should definitely be using a firewall. I cannot remember >>>>> anyone >>>>> having >>>>> update problems >>>> >>>> That's more or less describing the problem with MS firewall(s), >>>> they >>>> don't notify you when an MS application wants access. >>>> There should be no exemptions but MS made huge holes in their own >>>> firewall. >>>> >>>>> caused by the Windows firewall. But, there have been many update >>>>> problems >>>>> caused by non-MS >>>>> firewalls. Your choice of course. >>>> >>>> It is mostly not the firewall causing the problems but applications >>>> that >>>> need unsafe access. >>>> >>>>> "Rick Merrill"<Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:ufa4WNXuKHA.5940(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>> Why on earth would you disable Windows firewall? >>>>>>> That should remain on but others turned off. >>>>>> >>>>>> That's Not necessarily so. >>>>>> >>> >>> For example, I have an external (h/w) firewall. >>> For example, I'm running Microsoft Security Essentials - I think >>> that >>> alone means one doesn't need the old Xp-Firewall - what do you say? >> >> MSE has nothing to do with a firewall...it is an anti-virus with some >> anti-spyware capability, just like Avira or Avast or AVG or any of >> the >> for-fee AV apps. Not running at least the Windows Firewall is just >> poor >> practice. >> >> What hardware firewall do you refer to....your NAT router? > > BEFSR41 and TZ170 If you are referring to the SONICWALL TZ 170 hardware security "appliance", then you are not running without a firewall. That unit runs its own OS which runs a firewall in front of your computers, so you DO have a firewall, Rick...just because it is a separate hardware appliance doesn't change the fact. I can't imagine why someone would spend what that unit cost new, for a home network, when the same end can be accomplished with a less expensive NAT router or NAT router with SPI, along with Windows Firewall, or an inexpensive / free 3rd party firewall. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 A+ http://dts-l.net/
From: Rick Merrill on 3 Mar 2010 11:59 glee wrote: > "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message > news:OVgJA2juKHA.5936(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> glee wrote: >>> "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >>> news:eUC4k7iuKHA.5812(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote: >>>>> On 01-03-10 20:28, Unknown wrote: >>>>>> You should definitely be using a firewall. I cannot remember anyone >>>>>> having >>>>>> update problems >>>>> >>>>> That's more or less describing the problem with MS firewall(s), they >>>>> don't notify you when an MS application wants access. >>>>> There should be no exemptions but MS made huge holes in their own >>>>> firewall. >>>>> >>>>>> caused by the Windows firewall. But, there have been many update >>>>>> problems >>>>>> caused by non-MS >>>>>> firewalls. Your choice of course. >>>>> >>>>> It is mostly not the firewall causing the problems but applications >>>>> that >>>>> need unsafe access. >>>>> >>>>>> "Rick Merrill"<Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ufa4WNXuKHA.5940(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>>> Why on earth would you disable Windows firewall? >>>>>>>> That should remain on but others turned off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's Not necessarily so. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> For example, I have an external (h/w) firewall. >>>> For example, I'm running Microsoft Security Essentials - I think that >>>> alone means one doesn't need the old Xp-Firewall - what do you say? >>> >>> MSE has nothing to do with a firewall...it is an anti-virus with some >>> anti-spyware capability, just like Avira or Avast or AVG or any of the >>> for-fee AV apps. Not running at least the Windows Firewall is just poor >>> practice. >>> >>> What hardware firewall do you refer to....your NAT router? >> >> BEFSR41 and TZ170 > > If you are referring to the SONICWALL TZ 170 hardware security > "appliance", then you are not running without a firewall. That unit runs > its own OS which runs a firewall in front of your computers, so you DO > have a firewall, Rick...just because it is a separate hardware appliance > doesn't change the fact. > > I can't imagine why someone would spend what that unit cost new, for a > home network, when the same end can be accomplished with a less > expensive NAT router or NAT router with SPI, along with Windows > Firewall, or an inexpensive / free 3rd party firewall. You are right - it is part of a business firewall. But I have heard some disparage NAT routers as insufficient (even with NO DMZ). I've actually got a modem that supplies 1 NAT and the router another!
From: glee on 3 Mar 2010 15:05 "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message news:ezDqfLvuKHA.4636(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > glee wrote: >> "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:OVgJA2juKHA.5936(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> glee wrote: >>>> "Rick Merrill" <Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >>>> news:eUC4k7iuKHA.5812(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote: >>>>>> On 01-03-10 20:28, Unknown wrote: >>>>>>> You should definitely be using a firewall. I cannot remember >>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>> having >>>>>>> update problems >>>>>> >>>>>> That's more or less describing the problem with MS firewall(s), >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't notify you when an MS application wants access. >>>>>> There should be no exemptions but MS made huge holes in their own >>>>>> firewall. >>>>>> >>>>>>> caused by the Windows firewall. But, there have been many update >>>>>>> problems >>>>>>> caused by non-MS >>>>>>> firewalls. Your choice of course. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is mostly not the firewall causing the problems but >>>>>> applications >>>>>> that >>>>>> need unsafe access. >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Rick Merrill"<Rick0.merrill(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ufa4WNXuKHA.5940(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>>>> Why on earth would you disable Windows firewall? >>>>>>>>> That should remain on but others turned off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's Not necessarily so. >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For example, I have an external (h/w) firewall. >>>>> For example, I'm running Microsoft Security Essentials - I think >>>>> that >>>>> alone means one doesn't need the old Xp-Firewall - what do you >>>>> say? >>>> >>>> MSE has nothing to do with a firewall...it is an anti-virus with >>>> some >>>> anti-spyware capability, just like Avira or Avast or AVG or any of >>>> the >>>> for-fee AV apps. Not running at least the Windows Firewall is just >>>> poor >>>> practice. >>>> >>>> What hardware firewall do you refer to....your NAT router? >>> >>> BEFSR41 and TZ170 >> >> If you are referring to the SONICWALL TZ 170 hardware security >> "appliance", then you are not running without a firewall. That unit >> runs >> its own OS which runs a firewall in front of your computers, so you >> DO >> have a firewall, Rick...just because it is a separate hardware >> appliance >> doesn't change the fact. >> >> I can't imagine why someone would spend what that unit cost new, for >> a >> home network, when the same end can be accomplished with a less >> expensive NAT router or NAT router with SPI, along with Windows >> Firewall, or an inexpensive / free 3rd party firewall. > > You are right - it is part of a business firewall. > > But I have heard some disparage NAT routers as insufficient (even with > NO DMZ). I've actually got a modem that supplies 1 NAT and the router > another! NAT routers work fine. Routers with SPI are even better. In lieu of an appliance like yours, a software firewall (even a simple one like the Windows firewall) should be run...there are those who will insist the firewall is a waste of time, just as there will be those who will insist a NAT router is no help. No matter what you use, malware can find its way through, and it only takes one user clicking the wrong thing and allowing something to run, to make it all superfluous. That's where updates to patch vulnerabilities can help. Not installing security updates is just not a good idea. Reviewing the history of exploits that brought down unpatched servers should show you that security updates are as important as your hardware firewall. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 A+ http://dts-l.net/
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