swapping pre-installed Vista for XP
in [Windows Performance]
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From: Shenan Stanley on 19 Mar 2010 08:26 <snipped> Ken Blake, MVP wrote: > Almost certainly, Vista is preinstalled on C, not D. What's on D is > not Vista pre-installed but what you need to reinstall it--to reset > the computer to the condition it was in when it came from the > factory. And it's not "part" of D, it's all of it; D should be > reserved for that use, and nothing else should ever be written > there, since doing so can screw up the restoration info that's > there. <snipped> Bill wrote: > Many thanks for the helpful advice in the replies. One small point > about Ken Blakes comments on the D drive. Acer have said "Doing a > restore back to factory default will erase everything completely > i.e. even viruses/trojans on your C:\ drive. Restore back to its > original state. The D:\ drive will be left untouched as it contains your > Recovery > image file which is hidden away." which led me to suppose that data > files should be kept on D as otherwise it would be erased. Your misunderstanding of what the D drive for does not change that it should not be used if you plan on ever being able to go back to the original installation state without worries. The recovery partition is seldom larger than it needs to be. In other words - it is usually *quite small* in comparision to the drive they leave for your use. The really sad part is that this is probably one of the worst ways an OEM can supply for an end-user to restore their computer in case of a problem - because it is *worthless* if the physical hard disk drive dies. In any case - in reference to your original questions... http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/browse_frm/thread/4b95364e6900c82f/ First, I would suggest going to Windows 7 instead of Vista. Second, you don't necessarily need a bootable installation CD with integrated SATA drivers. It may be okay just to change the SATA operation to 'legacy' and XP will install as is and/or you can use a floppy diskette during the installation (look into pressing "F6" during the first part of the installation.) Looking on their web page, driver downloads for the machine you mentioned include: - Chipset: Intel Chipset Driver v8.3.0.1014, 2.0 MB, last updated 2008/12/10 http://snipurl.com/uxhc6 - Audio: Realtek Audio Driver v5.10.0.5449, 24.6 MB, last updated 2008/12/10 http://snipurl.com/uxhcd - Lan: Intel LAN Driver v1.159.2.6, 1.0 MB, last updated 2008/12/10 http://snipurl.com/uxhch - Modem: Pro-Nets Modem Driver v2.1.70, 721.4 KB, last updated 2008/12/10 http://snipurl.com/uxhcs - VGA: Intel VGA Driver v5.10.00.1026, 16.4 MB, last updated 2008/12/10 http://snipurl.com/uxhcw - Wireless LAN: Foxconn Wireless LAN Driver v4.100.15.5, 2.6 MB, last updated 2008/12/10 http://snipurl.com/uxhd4 There is no specific SATA driver - my guesses would be you don't need it, you could use the Intel Chipset driver and/or you could change the BIOS settings so the SATA operation is legacy and you would need to worry about anything until the installation was actually done and then you could install all the drivers inside of Windows XP from above. So... 1) No. 2) Slipstream/Integrate them in. If you are asking this - it is probably something that would take you longer to do than the suggestions already given (you've never done it, nLite *might* be able to do it for you - but if one of the suggestions above work - you don't have to worry about it.) Yes - one of the suggestions was a floppy drive - but depending on other BIOS settings and the floppyt drive in question - sometimes a USB one is worthless during the installation. 3) When you install Windows XP - you might as well drop any pretense you will ever use the recovery partition (D) to go back to Vista and use the installation steps to delete all partitions and create one single partition. 4) Yeah - if Acer doesn't directly support it - your attempt may fail and if they did not give you actual external recovery/restoration/installation media for Windows Vista - once you wipe that recovery partition (D) on the drive - you have no options beyond calling Acer and asking for media or buying another OS. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
From: Ken Blake, MVP on 19 Mar 2010 10:37 On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:01:53 +1000, "Bill" <frog(a)missthisbigpond.com> wrote: > Many thanks for the helpful advice in the replies. One small point about > Ken Blakes comments on the D drive. Acer have said "Doing a restore back to > factory default will erase everything completely i.e. even viruses/trojans > on your C:\ drive. Restore back to its original state. > The D:\ drive will be left untouched as it contains your Recovery image file > which is hidden away." Right. That's essentially true of all restoration drives, regardless of whether it's Acer or anyone else. > which led me to suppose that data files should be > kept on D as otherwise it would be erased. Sorry, but that's a very bad supposition, for several reasons: 1. There's not enough room there. 2. If you fool around with D: you run the risk of screwing up your recovery image. 3. The way to protect your data is not to put it someplace "safe" on your drive. It's to back it up on removable media, and not kept in the computer. What you are contemplating doing leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to many of the most common dangers: user errors, severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake(a)this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message > news:ud5vp5ple4vc55d3o7vpb2inkmge139s7p(a)4ax.com... > > On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:54:03 +1000, "Bill" <frog(a)missthisbigpond.com> > > wrote: > > > >> I have an Acer Aspire L3600 mini PC, a great little second PC but for the > >> fact that it came with Vista Home Premium pre-installed in a "hidden" > >> part > >> of 'D'. > > > > > > Almost certainly, Vista is preinstalled on C, not D. What's on D is > > not Vista pre-installed but what you need to reinstall it--to reset > > the computer to the condition it was in when it came from the factory. > > And it's not "part" of D, it's all of it; D should be reserved for > > that use, and nothing else should ever be written there, since doing > > so can screw up the restoration info that's there. > > > > > >> It has a built in facility where 'C' can be wiped completely clean > >> and restored to its factory default condition, > > > > > > Exactly! That's what D is for. This is the way most OEM computers are > > done these days. > > > > > >> data etc on 'D' hopefully > >> being untouched. > > > > > > Again, you should never write any data to D. That's *not* what it's > > for. > > > > > >> I don't like Vista much and would prefer to install my full retail > >> version > >> of Win XP on this PC. I don't mind giving up Vista completely. > >> > >> Acer's support is OK as far as it goes but they make it clear that they > >> do > >> NOT recommend this course of action ,saying that they do not support > >> downgrading the unit with anything other than what came pre-installed on > >> the > >> machine. They warn of the risk of "product failure". > > > > > > I don't recommend it either. If Vista is new to you, your dislike of > > it is probably mostly due to unfamiliarity. Give yourself enough time > > to get accustomed to it, and you may very well find that your views > > will change completely. But it's certainly your choice. > > > > > >> If the 'downgrade ' to Win XP can technically be done I'm willing to take > >> the risk but need a bit more help on the mechanics of doing it. I have > >> installed OSs on other PCs from scratch but this process, i.e. totally > >> removing a pre-installed OS which is in some hidden and protected part > >> of > >> the hard drive, appears to be rather more involved and I'm way out of my > >> comfort zone! I need help and advice. > > > > > > First of all, realize that a downgrade is not possible. What you need > > to do is clean install Windows XP. Clean installation is very easy and > > straightforward. You boot from the installation CD and follow the > > prompts for a clean installation. It will begin by formatting the > > drive and wiping out everything there, so be sure you have first > > backed up anything you need to external media. > > > > > > > >> Acer say that to run XP I will need to create a bootable disk with SATA > >> drivers otherwise Windows will not detect the hard drive when the CD is > >> run. > >> I think I've tracked these down on their download site, at least in the > >> driver download section these were the only ones to show up. > > > > > > I don't know anything about the details of your computer, and it's > > best to get all the info about drivers etc. that you need from Acer. > > > > > >> What's come up are a total of 6 for Chipset, Audio, Lan, Modem, VGA and > >> Wireless Lan. Each one is in a zipped folder. > >> > >> Out of interest I compared these to the drivers listed for the > >> pre-installed > >> version of Vista. The chipset version number is identical to the XP > >> version > >> but the others have different version numbers and there is a additional > >> TV > >> driver for Vista Home Premium (the L3600 is media centre enabled). > >> > >> So, > >> > >> 1. Are these 6 drivers in fact the SATA drivers Acer are referring to? > > > > > > Check with Acer to be sure. > > > > > >> 2. How do I create the bootable disk they refer to. > >> When I've installed an OS in the past I've used a floppy which was > >> inserted early during the > >> install process when prompted to do so. > > > > > > It's a bootable *CD* you need, not a floppy > > > > > > > >> I don't recall there being > >> 6 separate drivers though. > > > > > > That depends entirely on what hardware you have. > > > > > >> I have an external floppy disk drive and wonder whether this could > >> be > >> used in this case? If not can anyone tell me how to do it and what the > >> procedure is when installing XP. > > > > > > Again, check with Acer. > > > > > >> 3. Is the removal of the pre-installed material simply a question of > >> formatting the entire hard drive? > > > > > > Yes, and as I said above, that formatting is part of the clean > > installation, and doesn't need to be done first. > > > > > >> I thought of abandoning the idea of > >> having two partitions, 'C' and 'D' and, > > > > > > Again, your D is not for data, it's for restoration of Vista > > > > > >> on this PC, using external drives > >> for all data storage. > > > > > > I don't recommend that. Store data within C, and use your external > > drive(s) for backup. If you travel with this laptop, why would you > > want to carry around any external hard drives? It just means more > > weight and space you have to carry. > > > > > >> 4. Is there anything else of which I should be aware? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Bill > > > > -- > > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 > > Please Reply to the Newsgroup -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 Please Reply to the Newsgroup
From: smlunatick on 19 Mar 2010 15:14 On Mar 19, 8:01 am, "Bill" <f...(a)missthisbigpond.com> wrote: > Many thanks for the helpful advice in the replies. One small point about > Ken Blakes comments on the D drive. Acer have said "Doing a restore back to > factory default will erase everything completely i.e. even viruses/trojans > on your C:\ drive. Restore back to its original state. > The D:\ drive will be left untouched as it contains your Recovery image file > which is hidden away." which led me to suppose that data files should be > kept on D as otherwise it would be erased. > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kbl...(a)this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in messagenews:ud5vp5ple4vc55d3o7vpb2inkmge139s7p(a)4ax.com... > > > On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:54:03 +1000, "Bill" <f...(a)missthisbigpond.com> > > wrote: > > >> I have an Acer Aspire L3600 mini PC, a great little second PC but for the > >> fact that it came with Vista Home Premium pre-installed in a "hidden" > >> part > >> of 'D'. > > > Almost certainly, Vista is preinstalled on C, not D. What's on D is > > not Vista pre-installed but what you need to reinstall it--to reset > > the computer to the condition it was in when it came from the factory. > > And it's not "part" of D, it's all of it; D should be reserved for > > that use, and nothing else should ever be written there, since doing > > so can screw up the restoration info that's there. > > >> It has a built in facility where 'C' can be wiped completely clean > >> and restored to its factory default condition, > > > Exactly! That's what D is for. This is the way most OEM computers are > > done these days. > > >> data etc on 'D' hopefully > >> being untouched. > > > Again, you should never write any data to D. That's *not* what it's > > for. > > >> I don't like Vista much and would prefer to install my full retail > >> version > >> of Win XP on this PC. I don't mind giving up Vista completely. > > >> Acer's support is OK as far as it goes but they make it clear that they > >> do > >> NOT recommend this course of action ,saying that they do not support > >> downgrading the unit with anything other than what came pre-installed on > >> the > >> machine. They warn of the risk of "product failure". > > > I don't recommend it either. If Vista is new to you, your dislike of > > it is probably mostly due to unfamiliarity. Give yourself enough time > > to get accustomed to it, and you may very well find that your views > > will change completely. But it's certainly your choice. > > >> If the 'downgrade ' to Win XP can technically be done I'm willing to take > >> the risk but need a bit more help on the mechanics of doing it. I have > >> installed OSs on other PCs from scratch but this process, i.e. totally > >> removing a pre-installed OS which is in some hidden and protected part > >> of > >> the hard drive, appears to be rather more involved and I'm way out of my > >> comfort zone! I need help and advice. > > > First of all, realize that a downgrade is not possible. What you need > > to do is clean install Windows XP. Clean installation is very easy and > > straightforward. You boot from the installation CD and follow the > > prompts for a clean installation. It will begin by formatting the > > drive and wiping out everything there, so be sure you have first > > backed up anything you need to external media. > > >> Acer say that to run XP I will need to create a bootable disk with SATA > >> drivers otherwise Windows will not detect the hard drive when the CD is > >> run. > >> I think I've tracked these down on their download site, at least in the > >> driver download section these were the only ones to show up. > > > I don't know anything about the details of your computer, and it's > > best to get all the info about drivers etc. that you need from Acer. > > >> What's come up are a total of 6 for Chipset, Audio, Lan, Modem, VGA and > >> Wireless Lan. Each one is in a zipped folder. > > >> Out of interest I compared these to the drivers listed for the > >> pre-installed > >> version of Vista. The chipset version number is identical to the XP > >> version > >> but the others have different version numbers and there is a additional > >> TV > >> driver for Vista Home Premium (the L3600 is media centre enabled). > > >> So, > > >> 1. Are these 6 drivers in fact the SATA drivers Acer are referring to? > > > Check with Acer to be sure. > > >> 2. How do I create the bootable disk they refer to. > >> When I've installed an OS in the past I've used a floppy which was > >> inserted early during the > >> install process when prompted to do so. > > > It's a bootable *CD* you need, not a floppy > > >> I don't recall there being > >> 6 separate drivers though. > > > That depends entirely on what hardware you have. > > >> I have an external floppy disk drive and wonder whether this could > >> be > >> used in this case? If not can anyone tell me how to do it and what the > >> procedure is when installing XP. > > > Again, check with Acer. > > >> 3. Is the removal of the pre-installed material simply a question of > >> formatting the entire hard drive? > > > Yes, and as I said above, that formatting is part of the clean > > installation, and doesn't need to be done first. > > >> I thought of abandoning the idea of > >> having two partitions, 'C' and 'D' and, > > > Again, your D is not for data, it's for restoration of Vista > > >> on this PC, using external drives > >> for all data storage. > > > I don't recommend that. Store data within C, and use your external > > drive(s) for backup. If you travel with this laptop, why would you > > want to carry around any external hard drives? It just means more > > weight and space you have to carry. > > >> 4. Is there anything else of which I should be aware? > > >> Regards, > > >> Bill > > > -- > > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 > > Please Reply to the Newsgroup Drive D holds the "factory" copy of Windows (The Windows that was installed when the system was shipped out for the factory and the one YOU selected to use -- if you had a choice.) No files are normally saved to this drive adn all your data will not be placed onto this drive.
From: Mike Hall - MVP on 24 Mar 2010 09:31 "Bill" <frog(a)missthisbigpond.com> wrote in message news:uiYTaszxKHA.5480(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Many thanks for the helpful advice in the replies. One small point about > Ken Blakes comments on the D drive. Acer have said "Doing a restore back > to factory default will erase everything completely i.e. even > viruses/trojans on your C:\ drive. Restore back to its original state. > The D:\ drive will be left untouched as it contains your Recovery image > file which is hidden away." which led me to suppose that data files should > be kept on D as otherwise it would be erased. The recovery partition is set at a size that will hold all data necessary for complete recovery without ever generating a 'low disk space' error. As you have already been advised, backups (saves) should be on media which can be physically removed from the computer configuration. An external drive is good for the purpose, as are DVD's. Flash drives are not so good as they can just 'pop' without any warning.. -- Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
From: pratishtha on 24 Mar 2010 14:43
Mike Hall - MVP;1595565 Wrote: > "Bill" frog(a)missthisbigpond.com wrote in message > news:uiYTaszxKHA.5480(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...- > Many thanks for the helpful advice in the replies. One small point > about > Ken Blakes comments on the D drive. Acer have said "Doing a restore > back > to factory default will erase everything completely i.e. even > viruses/trojans on your C:\ drive. Restore back to its original > state. > The D:\ drive will be left untouched as it contains your Recovery > image > file which is hidden away." which led me to suppose that data files > should > be kept on D as otherwise it would be erased.- > > The recovery partition is set at a size that will hold all data > necessary > for complete recovery without ever generating a 'low disk space' error. > As > you have already been advised, backups (saves) should be on media which > can > be physically removed from the computer configuration. > > An external drive is good for the purpose, as are DVD's. Flash drives > are > not so good as they can just 'pop' without any warning.. > > -- > > Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience > http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/ I have an Acer Aspire L3600 mini PC, a great little second PC but for the fact that it came with Vista Home Premium pre-installed in a "hidden" part of 'D'. Almost certainly, Vista is preinstalled on C, not D. What's on D is not Vista pre-installed but what you need to reinstall it--to reset the computer to the condition it was in when it came from the factory. And it's not "part" of D, it's all of it; D should be reserved for that use, and nothing else should ever be written there, since doing so can screw up the restoration info that's there. -- pratishtha |