tagbody vs. defun
in [Lisp]
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From: vippstar on 28 Oct 2009 06:41 On Oct 28, 12:41 am, Pillsy <pillsb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Another book to look at is David Touretzky's _Common Lisp: A Gentle > Introduction to Symbolic Programming_. s/Programming/Computation/
From: Kaz Kylheku on 28 Oct 2009 12:15 On 2009-10-27, Tamas K Papp <tkpapp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Tagbody is best used when you want use labels and GO, CL's answer to > goto. You're being trolled, doh! Clues: - He's called "ruby.object" (w_a_x_man?) - He cannot possibly /not/ know that the TAGBODY is completely redundant in (dotimes (x 3) (tagbody ...)). Come on! - It's completely implausible that a newbie learns about tagbody without encountering progn; show me one single tutorial or book which has that consequence! - He's never actually seen tagbody being used in Lisp code. (But he's seen Lisp code. How much Lisp code can you see without encountering progn?) So it must be that he knows tagbody from random readings of the HyperSpec or ANSI CL; yet, he cannot find progn. If you're looking at TAGBODY in the CLHS all you have to do is navigate up and there is the Data and Control Flow Dictionary, with all the goodies, including PROGN. ruby.object has a lot to learn from Madhu. Here is a trolling recipe: Make it clear that you understand the difference between abstract semantics and actual semantics. But, at the same time, keep demonstrating a peculiar blind spot by insisting that some particular feature of the language conforms to some actual implementation semantics, and confuse the two. Rarely cite anything more deeply than a section number in the standard; if you cite something more specific, it should be irrelevant to your case, if not outright contradictory. Speaking of which, contradict yourself repeatedly, between postings and even within one. Insinuate that there should exist a portable program which reproduces the issues in a way that favors your interpretation, but never actually produce such code (which doesn't exist). When the argument falters, claim that it merely wasn't understood and then reify it under different terminology. Etc.
From: Madhu on 28 Oct 2009 12:39 [This has nothing to do with TAGBODY vs DEFUN, I'm responding to the trolling Kaz] * Kaz Kylheku <20091110124354.109(a)gmail.com> : Wrote on Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:15:18 +0000 (UTC): | ruby.object has a lot to learn from Madhu. More to learn from Kaz apparently! | Here is a trolling recipe: Make it clear that you understand the | difference between abstract semantics and actual semantics. But, at | the same time, keep demonstrating a peculiar blind spot by insisting | that some particular feature of the language conforms to some actual | implementation semantics, and confuse the two. Rarely cite anything | more deeply than a section number in the standard; if you cite | something more specific, it should be irrelevant to your case, if not | outright contradictory. Speaking of which, contradict yourself | repeatedly, between postings and even within one. So far you are describing all the tactics you adopted in responding to my posts in the Ron Garret thread, where at least I was able to show how you contradicted your earlier statements, your own claims about your superior IQ and mastery of the spec notwithstanding Thread starting at <20091101131414.643(a)gmail.com> -- Madhu
From: Tamas K Papp on 28 Oct 2009 13:48 On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:15:18 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote: > On 2009-10-27, Tamas K Papp <tkpapp(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Tagbody is best used when you want use labels and GO, CL's answer to >> goto. > > You're being trolled, doh! > > Clues: > > - He's called "ruby.object" (w_a_x_man?) I am still not sure that the OP is a troll. He could be coming from another language, and be under the impression that people start learning CL from the Hyperspec. > ruby.object has a lot to learn from Madhu. I don't think that acquiring the psychological traits of Madhu is a matter of learning. Rather, it would require a neurochemical imbalance and/or (depending on what school of thought you subscribe to) a seriously troubled childhood to become like him. Anyhow, I am keeping my mind open about the OP for the time being. Best, Tamas
From: Kaz Kylheku on 28 Oct 2009 17:51
On 2009-10-28, Tamas K Papp <tkpapp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:15:18 +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote: > >> On 2009-10-27, Tamas K Papp <tkpapp(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Tagbody is best used when you want use labels and GO, CL's answer to >>> goto. >> >> You're being trolled, doh! >> >> Clues: >> >> - He's called "ruby.object" (w_a_x_man?) > > I am still not sure that the OP is a troll. He could be coming from > another language, and be under the impression that people start > learning CL from the Hyperspec. If you're clever enough to find TAGBODY in the HyperSpec, chances are very high you can find PROGN all by yourself. It's kind of like asking, ``I'm trying to use PROGV but there must be a better way. I haven't seen PROGV used in other people's Lisp code, why is that? Other languages have lexical variables; what about Lisp?'' Waaaaay unlikely, sorry. |