the Modernization of Emacs
in [Lisp]
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From: Hadron Quark on 25 Apr 2006 07:13 "Greg"posted on 2006-04-25: > > Hadron Quark <hadronquark(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> "Galen"posted on 2006-04-25: >> >> > On 12 Apr 2006, lord(a)emf.net wrote: >> >> emacs is great : but lets never think its easy :) Like everything its >> easy when you know how : and that "when you know how" is, in my >> experience, the stumbling block to many people embracing emacs with >> the love and attention that it deserves. > > So emacs's disadvantage is that complex tools are hard to learn? Where > did you find that they are ever simple? No. easy tools can be hard to learn in emacs. Also, often, hard to configure. Caveat : I'm a supporter and user of emacs. It doesnt mean one has to be blind to its obvious learning hurdle. Complex tools can and often are made easy to use in other apps : not all emacs tools are difficult - but they are often tricky : emacs requires a paradigm shift. When you are there then emacs is heaven. > > >> Now I have emacs configured and working well it terrifies me that I might >> not have backed everything up properly and might need to go through the >> whole setup process again in the event of a system failure... > > Just copy your .emacs file to a usb thumb drive and you're done, even on > a Windows machine. Try and save your Windows app configuration in >some Do you have any idea how wrong you are on this? Different emacs apps install in different emacs places. They require changes to different emacs config files. often newer versions require adding extra lines to start.site.el, or addition of 50xxxx.el files in site-start.d. Often they are not compatible with Xemacs but are with 22.04 etc etc etc. Its is a myth that just copying your .emacs saves your configuration and install base. > useful & simple way other than dumping the entire registry to a text > file, along will whichever .ini files the app might use. So emacs is > bad in some way on this issue? Not bad : complicated. And complicated isnt necessary a bad thing when its complicated for a reason. And generally, in all fairness, that is the case. Nothing is for free. > > Gregm > -- %
From: Hadron Quark on 25 Apr 2006 07:15 "vjp2.at(a)at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com"posted on 2006-04-25: > The thing about emacs is you can work at speed-of-thought. > > Too many Windows apps are dumbed down. > > User friendly is for stupid users. I dont think I ever read such a dumb defence. 1) emacs is a windows app too. 2) loads of linux apps are "dumbed down too". 3) there are loads of windows apps which are not dumbed down. and as for "user friendly is for stupid users" : well,I dont think I really need to comment. emacs is a great piece of SW but to be blind to the learning hurdle required is plain "dumb" :) ... > > > > - = - > Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Reagan Mozart Pindus BioStrategist > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm > ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}--- > [Ignore http://lynx.browser.org/ noncompliant web sites] > [Regulation begets corruption] [Urb Sprawl confounds terror] > [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards] > -- %
From: Greg Menke on 25 Apr 2006 07:33 Hadron Quark <hadronquark(a)gmail.com> writes: > "Greg"posted on 2006-04-25: > > > > Hadron Quark <hadronquark(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > >> "Galen"posted on 2006-04-25: > > >> Now I have emacs configured and working well it terrifies me that I might > >> not have backed everything up properly and might need to go through the > >> whole setup process again in the event of a system failure... > > > > Just copy your .emacs file to a usb thumb drive and you're done, even on > > a Windows machine. Try and save your Windows app configuration in > >some > > Do you have any idea how wrong you are on this? Different emacs apps > install in different emacs places. They require changes to different > emacs config files. often newer versions require adding extra lines to > start.site.el, or addition of 50xxxx.el files in site-start.d. Often > they are not compatible with Xemacs but are with 22.04 etc etc > etc. Its is a myth that just copying your .emacs saves your > configuration and install base. Works for me and I've been hacking my .emacs for getting on 10 years now. The only stuff thats outside .emacs is my vm and gnus folders. Whenever I bring up a new *nix machine, .emacs is the only thing I copy over. Whenever I change my main machine, my whole home directory goes so again there is no problem. As far as customizing the emacs installation itself, I agree with you. I have a couple customized .el's banging around myself, CM'ed outside the emacs tree. I find Emacs a contrived interface for some things, so I just use better suited (and faster) apps for those things, and skip the installation hacking to gain portability. I also stick with FSF emacs, xemacs having pissed me off once too often. I think your backing up issue is probably a symptom of insufficient configuration management. Gregm
From: Hadron Quark on 25 Apr 2006 08:39 "Greg"posted on 2006-04-25: > As far as customizing the emacs installation itself, I agree with you. > I have a couple customized .el's banging around myself, CM'ed outside > the emacs tree. I find Emacs a contrived interface for some things, > so Mine is in the emacs tree. But the emacs tree is not for the faint hearted IMO. > I just use better suited (and faster) apps for those things, and skip > the installation hacking to gain portability. I also stick with FSF > emacs, xemacs having pissed me off once too often. To this day I dont know if this is xemacs or not : it seems to run in a shell. GNU Emacs 21.4.1 (i386-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2005-05-03 on rothera, modified by Debian Synaptic says emacs21 is installed and xemacs21 isnt : so I guess not. Yet M-x emacs version gives the string above which indicates X is in use - so I suppose its normal emacs with just enough for it to "run under X" as opposed to it being XEmacs? is this right? > > I think your backing up issue is probably a symptom of insufficient > configuration management. > > Gregm -- %
From: Harald Hanche-Olsen on 25 Apr 2006 11:36
+ Hadron Quark <hadronquark(a)gmail.com>: | emacs is a great piece of SW but to be blind to the learning hurdle | required is plain "dumb" :) ... If you really need the power of emacs, then the time spent learning it is worthwhile. If not, well there are simpler editors. I am all for making emacs easier to learn, but not if it makes it harder to use. An excellent example is disabled commands: This stops newbies from getting hopelessly confused, while experienced hands just enable the commands and get on with their work. -- * Harald Hanche-Olsen <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/> - It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true. -- Bertrand Russell |