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From: Patok on 9 Jul 2010 17:11
Hello, Bobb, I just now saw your thread. I would have answered before
and saved you some work. I had that problem, asked here at the end of
May, and solved it. Read about it here:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/107e88f9920ff6d3

In short, it /is/ the WD external drive, and it is working fine, nothing
wrong with it, just a little slow to spin up. You can stop the warnings
by increasing the disk timeout value in the registry:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Disk]
"TimeOutValue"=dword:00000020


Moral of the story: always do a search first, before asking questions. :)



- Bobb - wrote:
> Thanks guys.
>
> When I checked, I do see that internal are drives 0+1 so the "issue" was
> with my fairly new external WD 1 terabyte drive ??
>
> Before posting, I checked that error at the Microsoft link and there is said
> " if not the system disk then ignore the error". How useless an info message
> is that ? IS there a problem or not ? Should I return under warranty ??
>
> In general I think all of MSFT's troubleshooting is related to " is it our
> fault?" If not, then .... we don't care.
>
> Usually that is my backup drive and is turned off .
> For now I'll live with it and see if it happens again .If so, then I'll try
> to get the data copied to yet another drive. ( when I was shopping I WAS
> going to get a Seagate, but reviews said WDC was better. agrrrrrrhhh.)
>
>
> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
> news:i15ge4$rnj$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>> - Bobb - wrote:
>>> Yesterday I got about 100 of these in a row:
>>>
>>> Event Type: Warning
>>> Event Source: Disk
>>> Event Category: None
>>> Event ID: 51
>>> Date: 7/7/2010
>>> Time: 10:10:56 PM
>>> User: N/A
>>> Computer: AMDbox
>>> Description:
>>> An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\D during a paging
>>> operation.
>>>
>>> I have several drives (2 internal and one external) and lots of
>>> partitions ... how you I translate that into " Harddisk2\D "
>>> Since it says "during a paging operation", I'd assume it's wherever the
>>> pagefile is, but I'd like to know - does it start at drive 0 then drive 1
>>> , or does it start at 1 then 2 ?
>>> I'm guessing - "system disk" - but does Partition D = the 4th parition.
>>> (Starts with A then B ?...)
>>> Thanks for any pointers.
>> In my case here, Harddisk2 = Disk 2 in Disk Management (the third disk
>> down
>> in the disk management window).
>>
>> There is a sort-of recipe here. I wish they're write a technet article on
>> this, with a *complete* set of options.
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;159865
>>
>> The "D" doesn't mean what you think it does. Options there are D, DR, FT,
>> and possibly others, followed in some cases by a number. So that isn't a
>> "drive letter".
>>
>> And the word "paging" is also a misnomer.
>>
>> Here, a user attempted to copy files from one drive to another, and
>> a "paging" error was reported. When you see that error, it doesn't
>> mean the computer was working on a paging file.
>>
>> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/57229-45-write-failed-paging-operation
>>
>> All we can reasonably assume, is that your computer lost access to
>> harddisk2, during some kind of file operation. Once you look in
>> Disk Management, you'll have a better idea which disk that is.
>>
>> Paul
>
>


--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
--
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.
From: - Bobb - on 9 Jul 2010 19:38
Thanks
I created the variable and hopefully that' ll fix it

BTW I did search for messages for "Event ID: 51" and found no match.

"Patok" <crazy.div.patok(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i183aq$vn3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> Hello, Bobb, I just now saw your thread. I would have answered before
> and saved you some work. I had that problem, asked here at the end of May,
> and solved it. Read about it here:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/107e88f9920ff6d3
>
> In short, it /is/ the WD external drive, and it is working fine, nothing
> wrong with it, just a little slow to spin up. You can stop the warnings by
> increasing the disk timeout value in the registry:
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Disk]
> "TimeOutValue"=dword:00000020
>
>
> Moral of the story: always do a search first, before asking questions.
> :)
>
>
>
> - Bobb - wrote:
>> Thanks guys.
>>
>> When I checked, I do see that internal are drives 0+1 so the "issue" was
>> with my fairly new external WD 1 terabyte drive ??
>>
>> Before posting, I checked that error at the Microsoft link and there is
>> said " if not the system disk then ignore the error". How useless an info
>> message is that ? IS there a problem or not ? Should I return under
>> warranty ??
>>
>> In general I think all of MSFT's troubleshooting is related to " is it
>> our fault?" If not, then .... we don't care.
>>
>> Usually that is my backup drive and is turned off .
>> For now I'll live with it and see if it happens again .If so, then I'll
>> try to get the data copied to yet another drive. ( when I was shopping I
>> WAS going to get a Seagate, but reviews said WDC was better.
>> agrrrrrrhhh.)
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
>> news:i15ge4$rnj$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>> - Bobb - wrote:
>>>> Yesterday I got about 100 of these in a row:
>>>>
>>>> Event Type: Warning
>>>> Event Source: Disk
>>>> Event Category: None
>>>> Event ID: 51
>>>> Date: 7/7/2010
>>>> Time: 10:10:56 PM
>>>> User: N/A
>>>> Computer: AMDbox
>>>> Description:
>>>> An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\D during a paging
>>>> operation.
>>>>
>>>> I have several drives (2 internal and one external) and lots of
>>>> partitions ... how you I translate that into " Harddisk2\D "
>>>> Since it says "during a paging operation", I'd assume it's wherever the
>>>> pagefile is, but I'd like to know - does it start at drive 0 then drive
>>>> 1 , or does it start at 1 then 2 ?
>>>> I'm guessing - "system disk" - but does Partition D = the 4th parition.
>>>> (Starts with A then B ?...)
>>>> Thanks for any pointers.
>>> In my case here, Harddisk2 = Disk 2 in Disk Management (the third disk
>>> down
>>> in the disk management window).
>>>
>>> There is a sort-of recipe here. I wish they're write a technet article
>>> on
>>> this, with a *complete* set of options.
>>>
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;159865
>>>
>>> The "D" doesn't mean what you think it does. Options there are D, DR,
>>> FT,
>>> and possibly others, followed in some cases by a number. So that isn't a
>>> "drive letter".
>>>
>>> And the word "paging" is also a misnomer.
>>>
>>> Here, a user attempted to copy files from one drive to another, and
>>> a "paging" error was reported. When you see that error, it doesn't
>>> mean the computer was working on a paging file.
>>>
>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/57229-45-write-failed-paging-operation
>>>
>>> All we can reasonably assume, is that your computer lost access to
>>> harddisk2, during some kind of file operation. Once you look in
>>> Disk Management, you'll have a better idea which disk that is.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
> --
> Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.


From: - Bobb - on 9 Jul 2010 19:44
Paul
I had d'loaded the WD diags but wasn't ready to wipe/test a nearly full 1 Tb
drive yet.
I'll follow your links/ procedures. Thanks

Just thinking ... on my second IBM pc I had a 40 MEGAbyte drive and needed
to make a copy of it. I started before bedtime - and it was still going when
we woke up. ( My first PC had dual floppy drives only - hard drives weren't
yet small enough. I used to work on 20MB drives in banks etc that were the
size of pizza ovens. Now I have a 1 Terabyte drive on my desk - for $99 ! )

"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
news:i17psi$488$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>- Bobb - wrote:
>> Thanks guys.
>>
>> When I checked, I do see that internal are drives 0+1 so the "issue" was
>> with my fairly new external WD 1 terabyte drive ??
>>
>> Before posting, I checked that error at the Microsoft link and there is
>> said " if not the system disk then ignore the error". How useless an info
>> message is that ? IS there a problem or not ? Should I return under
>> warranty ??
>>
>> In general I think all of MSFT's troubleshooting is related to " is it
>> our fault?" If not, then .... we don't care.
>>
>> Usually that is my backup drive and is turned off .
>> For now I'll live with it and see if it happens again .If so, then I'll
>> try to get the data copied to yet another drive. ( when I was shopping I
>> WAS going to get a Seagate, but reviews said WDC was better.
>> agrrrrrrhhh.)
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
>> news:i15ge4$rnj$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>> - Bobb - wrote:
>>>> Yesterday I got about 100 of these in a row:
>>>>
>>>> Event Type: Warning
>>>> Event Source: Disk
>>>> Event Category: None
>>>> Event ID: 51
>>>> Date: 7/7/2010
>>>> Time: 10:10:56 PM
>>>> User: N/A
>>>> Computer: AMDbox
>>>> Description:
>>>> An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\D during a paging
>>>> operation.
>>>>
>>>> I have several drives (2 internal and one external) and lots of
>>>> partitions ... how you I translate that into " Harddisk2\D "
>>>> Since it says "during a paging operation", I'd assume it's wherever the
>>>> pagefile is, but I'd like to know - does it start at drive 0 then drive
>>>> 1 , or does it start at 1 then 2 ?
>>>> I'm guessing - "system disk" - but does Partition D = the 4th parition.
>>>> (Starts with A then B ?...)
>>>> Thanks for any pointers.
>>> In my case here, Harddisk2 = Disk 2 in Disk Management (the third disk
>>> down
>>> in the disk management window).
>>>
>>> There is a sort-of recipe here. I wish they're write a technet article
>>> on
>>> this, with a *complete* set of options.
>>>
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;159865
>>>
>>> The "D" doesn't mean what you think it does. Options there are D, DR,
>>> FT,
>>> and possibly others, followed in some cases by a number. So that isn't a
>>> "drive letter".
>>>
>>> And the word "paging" is also a misnomer.
>>>
>>> Here, a user attempted to copy files from one drive to another, and
>>> a "paging" error was reported. When you see that error, it doesn't
>>> mean the computer was working on a paging file.
>>>
>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/57229-45-write-failed-paging-operation
>>>
>>> All we can reasonably assume, is that your computer lost access to
>>> harddisk2, during some kind of file operation. Once you look in
>>> Disk Management, you'll have a better idea which disk that is.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>
> I would recommend going to the Western Digital site and downloading
> DataLifeguard tools for disk testing. I don't know what restrictions
> exist on that software, like what interfaces it doesn't work on.
> Perhaps if you run a diagnostic, it will confirm there is some
> kind of problem. The download page, specifies tools as a function of
> the drive model, so presumably they'll list a test tool that is
> relevant.
>
> The OS is written by Microsoft, such that kernel operations remain
> responsive. Now, if you have some software present, that violates
> any of the real time properties, or inserts shims or the like in
> a software stack, that can change the properties in a way not
> anticipated by the OS designers. An example of intrusive software
> might be some AV software. Googling on "Delayed Write" failures,
> from the past, might dig up software situations, where some
> third party addition has upset proper OS operation.
>
> Some hardware operations on disks, have longer timeout constants than
> perhaps the driver is willing to wait. Say the disk will attempt for
> 20 seconds, to read a flaky sector. And the OS disk driver will only
> wait 5 seconds for the disk to respond. That could result in log
> entries being generated, and perhaps even a consistency problem.
> There are some disks, where a parameter is changed, to make that
> less of an issue in certain situations. Western Digital makes RE
> drives, where for twice the price of a regular disk, they change
> the timeout constant to somewhere around 5 to 7 seconds. The purpose
> of that, is so a severe disk issue, won't cause a RAID array to go
> offline. (The disks are intended for usage in RAID arrays.) At one
> point, some of the WD disks, supported the usage of a utility, to
> flip the timeout constant, without paying an exorbitant premium
> to WD, but they closed that loophole.
>
> So there could be physical reasons for this, such as a bad brand
> new disk. Or, it could be software induced (for more reasons than
> I know about).
>
> I'd start with a backup first, leaving the drive powered off
> until you're ready to run the transfer. Connect a replacement disk,
> and make sure all your data is safe.
>
> After that, try a chkdsk, and see if any problems are detected
> with the file system(s) on that disk. If there is a persistent
> problem, and it is inserting problems in the file system structures,
> the longer you leave it, the harder it would be for chkdsk to
> repair it.
>
> Shut down, and run the WD diagnostics. (Some diagnostics use read
> only testing, with options to do more destructive write testing.
> I usually just stick with read testing.)
>
> The SMART statistics kept by the drive, have a few key parameters
> that tell you about drive health. I couldn't decode that info,
> if my life depended on it :-) But one key parameter, is the
> "Pending" count. That tells you, how many suspect sectors the
> drive has detected. On the next write attempt to those sectors,
> the drive will have to decide whether that sector is dependable
> or not. If the next write fails to work, then the sector is
> spared out. Seeing a persistent pending count, might be a
> sign of trouble to come. I don't think I've seen any "Pending"
> accumulate on drives here, when I've looked at the SMART stats.
>
> The file system, also has mechanisms for tracking "bad clusters",
> and that is a search term you could try, for more information
> on where that kind of thing might be logged. For me, the
> logging of physical disk problems is more important, as I
> spook easily, and at the first sign of trouble, I install
> a new disk. It's one of the reasons I have so many
> spare disks sitting on a table in the junk room :-)
>
> Paul


From: Twayne on 9 Jul 2010 20:16
In news:O5vHlEqHLHA.3560(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
- Bobb - <bobb(a)noemail.123> typed:
> Yesterday I got about 100 of these in a row:
>
> Event Type: Warning
> Event Source: Disk
> Event Category: None
> Event ID: 51
> Date: 7/7/2010
> Time: 10:10:56 PM
> User: N/A
> Computer: AMDbox
> Description:
> An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\D during
> a paging operation.
>
> I have several drives (2 internal and one external) and
> lots of partitions ... how you I translate that into "
> Harddisk2\D " Since it says "during a paging operation", I'd assume it's
> wherever the pagefile is, but I'd like to know - does it
> start at drive 0 then drive 1 , or does it start at 1 then
> 2 ? I'm guessing - "system disk" - but does Partition D = the
> 4th parition. (Starts with A then B ?...)
> Thanks for any pointers.

Control Panel; Administrative Tools; Disk Management will show you the
numbering system used in your computer. That's the naming conventions you
want to use.

HTH,

Twayne`


From: Paul on 9 Jul 2010 23:20
- Bobb - wrote:
> Paul
> I had d'loaded the WD diags but wasn't ready to wipe/test a nearly full 1 Tb
> drive yet.
> I'll follow your links/ procedures. Thanks
>
> Just thinking ... on my second IBM pc I had a 40 MEGAbyte drive and needed
> to make a copy of it. I started before bedtime - and it was still going when
> we woke up. ( My first PC had dual floppy drives only - hard drives weren't
> yet small enough. I used to work on 20MB drives in banks etc that were the
> size of pizza ovens. Now I have a 1 Terabyte drive on my desk - for $99 ! )
>

The first drives I got to play with, were 5MB and 10MB, full height drives.
I didn't know it at the time, but I was reading recently, that those
cost somewhere around $1400 each back in the day. We had a purchaser and
a shipping department, so never got to see the price of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-506

And for floppies, we were using the 8" ones. The floppy drive had an
AC motor, and required 120V to spin the floppies inside the sleeve. That was
what each desktop system had in it, as well as one hard drive. Unlike modern
systems, where all the wiring inside the computer is low voltage, it meant the
floppy drive had to be spliced into the AC wiring.

We used these for departmental file servers,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/DysanRemovableDiskPack.agr.jpg

and these for backups.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/9-track-drive-open.jpg

We had a person hired full time, just to make tape backups and
see they were put on a truck and shipped off site.

Even back then, when people discovered we were using 9-track tape
for backups, they'd give us a strange look. I was kinda curious
where they were buying the transports, because I thought that
was a dead technology. I suppose they were cheap.

Paul
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