what characterset to use?
in [Oracle]
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From: joel garry on 30 Aug 2007 09:44 On Aug 29, 10:53 pm, sybra...(a)hccnet.nl wrote: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:21:07 -0700, joel garry <joel-ga...(a)home.com> > wrote: > > >Ah jeez, Sybrand, Laurenz is one of the good guys. > > Is he? His advice to set the database character set to the character > set of the client is utter nonsense. > When pointed to that fact, he doesn't admit that, but he starts to > spout flames and calling me 'clueless'. > Which, apart from being dishonest and a coward, as he doesn't admit > his own mistake, Laurenz Albe clearly is. > > [blush] my mistake, I was confusing him with someone else. Sorry to all! jg -- @home.com is bogus. "There is no such thing as a lose canon. Just easy targets." - Noons
From: sybrandb on 31 Aug 2007 01:37 On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:28:24 +0200, "Martin T." <0xCDCDCDCD(a)gmx.at> wrote: >sybrandb(a)hccnet.nl wrote: >> On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:05:46 +0200, "Martin T." <0xCDCDCDCD(a)gmx.at> >> wrote: >> >>> Laurenz Albe wrote: >>>> sybrandb(a)hccnet.nl wrote: >>>>>> (...) >>>> You got me wrong. >>>> >>>> Of course it is not Oracle's bug if I set my NLS_LANG wrong. >>>> >>>> But it is Oracle's bug (in my opinion) if I have set the client >>>> character set to US7ASCII, insert a byte > 127 in a text field, and >>>> neither get an error nor (as Oracle seems to prefer) have the byte >>>> clandestinely converted to a question mark. >>>> >>>> I claim that the missing check for incorrect characters is a bug. >>>> >>> Amen. But still Oracle will probably tell you that it's a Feature, not a >>> Bug. >> >> It is not a bug. Laurenz Albe is, as usual, having everything wrong, >> clueless as he is on characterset issues. >> In this situation you will never notice anything when your database >> characterset is US7ASCII and your client characterset is US7ASCII. >> If the client O/S displays the character correctly everything will >> work. >> I am speaking from experience, been there, done that. Laurenz Albe >> just doesn't know what he is talking about (refer to his recent advise >> to set the database characterset to the characterset of the client, >> which is utterly stupid). >> > >Would you be so kind as to quote Laurenz's exact wording where he >actually does recommend that? Because I sure cannot remember having read >anything here that would state such a thing. > >br, >Martin <quote> I agree with you that reading what you quoted from Oracle documentation sounds like they are all FOR having database character set and client character set identical. </quote> -- Sybrand Bakker Senior Oracle DBA
From: Ben on 31 Aug 2007 09:52 On Aug 31, 1:37 am, sybra...(a)hccnet.nl wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:28:24 +0200, "Martin T." <0xCDCDC...(a)gmx.at> > wrote: > > > > > > >sybra...(a)hccnet.nl wrote: > >> On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:05:46 +0200, "Martin T." <0xCDCDC...(a)gmx.at> > >> wrote: > > >>> Laurenz Albe wrote: > >>>> sybra...(a)hccnet.nl wrote: > >>>>>> (...) > >>>> You got me wrong. > > >>>> Of course it is not Oracle's bug if I set my NLS_LANG wrong. > > >>>> But it is Oracle's bug (in my opinion) if I have set the client > >>>> character set to US7ASCII, insert a byte > 127 in a text field, and > >>>> neither get an error nor (as Oracle seems to prefer) have the byte > >>>> clandestinely converted to a question mark. > > >>>> I claim that the missing check for incorrect characters is a bug. > > >>> Amen. But still Oracle will probably tell you that it's a Feature, not a > >>> Bug. > > >> It is not a bug. Laurenz Albe is, as usual, having everything wrong, > >> clueless as he is on characterset issues. > >> In this situation you will never notice anything when your database > >> characterset is US7ASCII and your client characterset is US7ASCII. > >> If the client O/S displays the character correctly everything will > >> work. > >> I am speaking from experience, been there, done that. Laurenz Albe > >> just doesn't know what he is talking about (refer to his recent advise > >> to set the database characterset to the characterset of the client, > >> which is utterly stupid). > > >Would you be so kind as to quote Laurenz's exact wording where he > >actually does recommend that? Because I sure cannot remember having read > >anything here that would state such a thing. > > >br, > >Martin > > <quote> > I agree with you that reading what you quoted from Oracle > documentation > sounds like they are all FOR having database character set and client > character set identical. > </quote> > > -- > Sybrand Bakker > Senior Oracle DBA- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - He was agreeing that Oracle's documentation is confusing and in certain parts SOUNDS LIKE that is what they suggest, key words 'SOUNDS LIKE'. I didn't read that as him suggesting setting the two to be the same, please re-read and try to comprehend.
From: sybrandb on 31 Aug 2007 18:22 On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:52:46 -0700, Ben <balvey(a)comcast.net> wrote: >He was agreeing that Oracle's documentation is confusing and in >certain parts SOUNDS LIKE that is what they suggest, key words 'SOUNDS >LIKE'. I didn't read that as him suggesting setting the two to be the >same, please re-read and try to comprehend. It doesn't matter how often he uses 'SOUNDS LIKE': he is misrepresenting Oracle's point of view on this. Oracle's point of view is: character set should always equate characterset of O/S on *both sides*. If that means character set conversion, so be it. So if you have a database on Unix, as Unix doesn't support MSWIN1252, the database characterset should WE8ISO8859P15. If your clients are Windows your characterset should be MSWIN1252 on the client, as Windows doesn't support WE8ISO8859P15. If you are running in a DOS box, your characterset should be set to WEPC850. So if he states it 'SOUNDS LIKE' Oracle recommends setting everything to MSWIN1252: Oracle never recommended that, and implementing his advice is outright dangerous if you have a database running on Unix. He *cheats* when he is stating Oracle recommends using UTF8. That is a recent recommendation which applies to 10g and higher. -- Sybrand Bakker Senior Oracle DBA
From: Frank van Bortel on 1 Sep 2007 07:11
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 sybrandb(a)hccnet.nl wrote: > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:52:46 -0700, Ben <balvey(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> He was agreeing that Oracle's documentation is confusing and in >> certain parts SOUNDS LIKE that is what they suggest, key words 'SOUNDS >> LIKE'. I didn't read that as him suggesting setting the two to be the >> same, please re-read and try to comprehend. > > It doesn't matter how often he uses 'SOUNDS LIKE': he is > misrepresenting Oracle's point of view on this. > Oracle's point of view is: character set should always equate > characterset of O/S on *both sides*. > If that means character set conversion, so be it. > > So if you have a database on Unix, as Unix doesn't support MSWIN1252, > the database characterset should WE8ISO8859P15. > If your clients are Windows your characterset should be MSWIN1252 on > the client, as Windows doesn't support WE8ISO8859P15. > If you are running in a DOS box, your characterset should be set to > WEPC850. > So if he states it 'SOUNDS LIKE' Oracle recommends setting everything > to MSWIN1252: Oracle never recommended that, and implementing his > advice is outright dangerous if you have a database running on Unix. > > He *cheats* when he is stating Oracle recommends using UTF8. That is a > recent recommendation which applies to 10g and higher. > So, you are an advocate of keeping the characterset of the client the same as for the database?!? Because you do: you say the Database should adhere the OS characterset. As far as any utility, running on the server is concerned, those utilities are *clients* to the server. Utter nonsense to jump on Laurenz like that, Sybrand, when you claim the very same. An oracle database (running on whatever system) is perfectly happy when created with WE8MSWIN1252 characterset. But please set your Unix *environment* to WE8ISO8859P1 (not P15, as Unix does not support the Euro symbol) - to quote you: > If that means character set conversion, so be it. The bottom line is: what the "Install Wizards" from Oracle come up with as default, usually is quite workable. As soon as you have a mixed environment (mixed being single and multibyte character sets to be supported) switch to a database UTF characterset, supported since 8i. Leave the environment settings -where ever- as they are! - -- Regards, Frank van Bortel Top-posting is one way to shut me up... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32) iD8DBQFG2UjzLw8L4IAs830RAtd7AJ98sB5ZNWBglER/Tys4L7QSzfQdNgCeIvC0 9bVsFEXd5MoxQbu8maptGGY= =8tja -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |