Prev: "Normalizing" imported data
Next: DB guide - STEVIE PIMPS AGAIN!
From: RAK on 15 Dec 2009 14:51


"Dorian" wrote:

> Only you can determine how things relate to eachh other since you know your
> business rules.
> I can envisage an employee working for multiple agencies possible more than
> one simultaneously. Whether this could happen during a project you would know.
> An employee might work on more than one project simultaneously possibly for
> different agencies.
> Actually it seems like you are handling several distinct functions in one
> database. You have an Employee system, a Project system and an Accounting
> system. Will these all be used by the same people. Possibly you may need
> multiple front-ends for different functions.
> Of course, since I dont know your systems this may all be inaccurate.
> -- Dorian
> "Give someone a fish and they eat for a day; teach someone to fish and they
> eat for a lifetime".
>
>
> "RAK" wrote:
>
> > I am trying to create an operational database. We hire temporary staff
> > through several different employment agencies to complete work on projects
> > for various clients. The term of employment is linked to individual projects
> > which are time limited and include different assignments within each project.
> > Many of the people we use have worked on many different projects at many
> > different times including several years. I started out thinking I needed 5
> > different tables and needed to use a many-many relationship. Here are the 5
> > tables I identified with some types of data:
> > Employee_Personal (usual type data)
> > Employment_History (includes Dates hired, Projects assigned at different
> > times, employment title per project, performance records; rehire status)
> > Agency (related to each employee, # provided for each project; performance
> > of employees provided)
> > Project (Clients, Dates, subjects, teams needed, staff needed)
> > Accounting [(Hours to complete project-administration pre training,
> > training, execution and administrative client reporting); (staff cost factors
> > computed for number of hours *title pay); (computer cost and needs per
> > project); space cost and needs per project)]
> >
> > I started looking at the tables to try to see what relationships I needed
> > and if I needed junction tables. I didn't know how to handle the different
> > dates of employment and different assignments for each employee and wondered
> > if I could use multi-valued fields or value lists for this data. Then I
> > started doubting if I was going in the right direction and thought I'd see if
> > I could get any help.
> >

First to clarify: staff can only be hired thru one agency during a current
year but they can work on many different projects
You said "Possibly you may need
> multiple front-ends for different functions." What do you mean by this? I thought one of the strengths of Microsoft Access was to contain all relational data in one data base. Are you thinking that I need three databases? I would appreciate your views.
From: RAK on 15 Dec 2009 14:56


"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

> The way you handle many-many relationships in Access is via a junction
> table.
>
> It sounds like you are saying that:
>
> One Project can have many Tasks.
> One Task can be assigned to (any-of-many) Staff
> One Staff can be working for (any-of-many) Agencies
>
> Sounds like:
> [Project] table - info specific to a project
> [Task] table - Task-specific info, including ProjectID (to which Project
> does this task belong?)
> [Agency] table - list of agencies and agency-specific info
> [Staff] table - AKA [Employee] table
> [AgencyStaff] table - a junction table, showing who worked for which
> agency during which time frame
> [TaskAssignment] table - a junction table, showing which AgencyStaffID
> worked on which TaskID
>
> But you're closer to your situation. Does the above make sense?
>
> Regards
>
> Jeff Boyce
> Microsoft Access MVP
>
> --
> Disclaimer: This author may have received products and services mentioned
> in this post. Mention and/or description of a product or service herein
> does not constitute endorsement thereof.
>
> Any code or pseudocode included in this post is offered "as is", with no
> guarantee as to suitability.
>
> You can thank the FTC of the USA for making this disclaimer
> possible/necessary.
>
> "RAK" <RAK(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:589C60C8-B28D-4D1C-A00A-19DB5F04B55A(a)microsoft.com...
> >I am trying to create an operational database. We hire temporary staff
> > through several different employment agencies to complete work on projects
> > for various clients. The term of employment is linked to individual
> > projects
> > which are time limited and include different assignments within each
> > project.
> > Many of the people we use have worked on many different projects at many
> > different times including several years. I started out thinking I needed 5
> > different tables and needed to use a many-many relationship. Here are the
> > 5
> > tables I identified with some types of data:
> > Employee_Personal (usual type data)
> > Employment_History (includes Dates hired, Projects assigned at different
> > times, employment title per project, performance records; rehire status)
> > Agency (related to each employee, # provided for each project; performance
> > of employees provided)
> > Project (Clients, Dates, subjects, teams needed, staff needed)
> > Accounting [(Hours to complete project-administration pre training,
> > training, execution and administrative client reporting); (staff cost
> > factors
> > computed for number of hours *title pay); (computer cost and needs per
> > project); space cost and needs per project)]
> >
> > I started looking at the tables to try to see what relationships I needed
> > and if I needed junction tables. I didn't know how to handle the different
> > dates of employment and different assignments for each employee and
> > wondered
> > if I could use multi-valued fields or value lists for this data. Then I
> > started doubting if I was going in the right direction and thought I'd see
> > if
> > I could get any help.
> >
>
>
> .
> Yes, thanks. This is the direction I was heading but got a little lost when I started working on relational links and defining the foreign keys. The AgencyStaff junction table appears to take care of the relationships for staff & agency. But I'm not sure what relationships are defined in the TaskAssignment junction table. Can I impose upon you for a little more detail and perhaps a light will shine for me on how to handle the accounting data.
To clarify your conclusions:
One Project can have many Tasks. Yes
> One Task can be assigned to (any-of-many) Staff Yes
> One Staff can be working for (any-of-many) Agencies No, not in same year
From: RAK on 15 Dec 2009 15:03


"rolaaus" wrote:

> One question that I have, after reading your post is when you mention "how to
> handle the different dates of employment and different assignments for each
> employee".
>
> Here's my question. Does your system *need* to link the dates of a project
> with the dates of an employees start/end date? In other words, let's say for
> examples sake, that you have an employee that started working for your
> company on Feb 1, 2008. He was assigned to a project that happened to have
> started on Jan 1, 2008. You didn't mentioned tasks, but another person did,
> so there's another factor.
>
> What if you have one employee that starts a task/project and isn't able to
> complete it for whatever reason (fired, quits, it doesn't matter why) and you
> have to hire someone new.
>
> This is why I ask the question, does your system need to keep track of
> employees start/end dates, and !directly link! them to other dates (projects
> or tasks) in the system?
>
> Usually project tracking systems are really going to care. But if this
> system is going to be used by the "bean counters" (accountants and/or
> executive level - VP, etc) then it probably will matter, a lot!
>
> "RAK" wrote:
>
> > I am trying to create an operational database. We hire temporary staff
> > through several different employment agencies to complete work on projects
> > for various clients. The term of employment is linked to individual projects
> > which are time limited and include different assignments within each project.
> > Many of the people we use have worked on many different projects at many
> > different times including several years. I started out thinking I needed 5
> > different tables and needed to use a many-many relationship. Here are the 5
> > tables I identified with some types of data:
> > Employee_Personal (usual type data)
> > Employment_History (includes Dates hired, Projects assigned at different
> > times, employment title per project, performance records; rehire status)
> > Agency (related to each employee, # provided for each project; performance
> > of employees provided)
> > Project (Clients, Dates, subjects, teams needed, staff needed)
> > Accounting [(Hours to complete project-administration pre training,
> > training, execution and administrative client reporting); (staff cost factors
> > computed for number of hours *title pay); (computer cost and needs per
> > project); space cost and needs per project)]
> >
> > I started looking at the tables to try to see what relationships I needed
> > and if I needed junction tables. I didn't know how to handle the different
> > dates of employment and different assignments for each employee and wondered
> > if I could use multi-valued fields or value lists for this data. Then I
> > started doubting if I was going in the right direction and thought I'd see if
> > I could get any help.
> >

in answer to your question:"Does your system *need* to link the dates of a
project
> with the dates of an employees start/end date?" Yes In addition the data needs to include data on each employee as to when & why released. this type of information is needed to answer questions by our clients on employee performance as well as for statistical reports to our clients. It is also used internally in selecting employees for future projects.
From: Jeff Boyce on 15 Dec 2009 16:18
If you care that John Doe was working for Agency A while working on Project
17, Task 3 in 2008, but was working for Agency B while working on Project
23, Task 11 in 2009, then you'll need to keep track of Staff/Agency
connections.

If you want to see EVERYTHING John Doe ever touched, but don't care who he
was working for at the time, you don't need the Staff/Agency connection.

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Access MVP

--
Disclaimer: This author may have received products and services mentioned
in this post. Mention and/or description of a product or service herein
does not constitute endorsement thereof.

Any code or pseudocode included in this post is offered "as is", with no
guarantee as to suitability.

You can thank the FTC of the USA for making this disclaimer
possible/necessary.

"RAK" <RAK(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2FA25833-3BA2-4AD6-9322-B2BEAC74CC85(a)microsoft.com...
>
>
> "Jeff Boyce" wrote:
>
>> The way you handle many-many relationships in Access is via a junction
>> table.
>>
>> It sounds like you are saying that:
>>
>> One Project can have many Tasks.
>> One Task can be assigned to (any-of-many) Staff
>> One Staff can be working for (any-of-many) Agencies
>>
>> Sounds like:
>> [Project] table - info specific to a project
>> [Task] table - Task-specific info, including ProjectID (to which
>> Project
>> does this task belong?)
>> [Agency] table - list of agencies and agency-specific info
>> [Staff] table - AKA [Employee] table
>> [AgencyStaff] table - a junction table, showing who worked for which
>> agency during which time frame
>> [TaskAssignment] table - a junction table, showing which AgencyStaffID
>> worked on which TaskID
>>
>> But you're closer to your situation. Does the above make sense?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Jeff Boyce
>> Microsoft Access MVP
>>
>> --
>> Disclaimer: This author may have received products and services mentioned
>> in this post. Mention and/or description of a product or service herein
>> does not constitute endorsement thereof.
>>
>> Any code or pseudocode included in this post is offered "as is", with no
>> guarantee as to suitability.
>>
>> You can thank the FTC of the USA for making this disclaimer
>> possible/necessary.
>>
>> "RAK" <RAK(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:589C60C8-B28D-4D1C-A00A-19DB5F04B55A(a)microsoft.com...
>> >I am trying to create an operational database. We hire temporary staff
>> > through several different employment agencies to complete work on
>> > projects
>> > for various clients. The term of employment is linked to individual
>> > projects
>> > which are time limited and include different assignments within each
>> > project.
>> > Many of the people we use have worked on many different projects at
>> > many
>> > different times including several years. I started out thinking I
>> > needed 5
>> > different tables and needed to use a many-many relationship. Here are
>> > the
>> > 5
>> > tables I identified with some types of data:
>> > Employee_Personal (usual type data)
>> > Employment_History (includes Dates hired, Projects assigned at
>> > different
>> > times, employment title per project, performance records; rehire
>> > status)
>> > Agency (related to each employee, # provided for each project;
>> > performance
>> > of employees provided)
>> > Project (Clients, Dates, subjects, teams needed, staff needed)
>> > Accounting [(Hours to complete project-administration pre training,
>> > training, execution and administrative client reporting); (staff cost
>> > factors
>> > computed for number of hours *title pay); (computer cost and needs per
>> > project); space cost and needs per project)]
>> >
>> > I started looking at the tables to try to see what relationships I
>> > needed
>> > and if I needed junction tables. I didn't know how to handle the
>> > different
>> > dates of employment and different assignments for each employee and
>> > wondered
>> > if I could use multi-valued fields or value lists for this data. Then
>> > I
>> > started doubting if I was going in the right direction and thought I'd
>> > see
>> > if
>> > I could get any help.
>> >
>>
>>
>> .
>> Yes, thanks. This is the direction I was heading but got a little lost
>> when I started working on relational links and defining the foreign keys.
>> The AgencyStaff junction table appears to take care of the relationships
>> for staff & agency. But I'm not sure what relationships are defined in
>> the TaskAssignment junction table. Can I impose upon you for a little
>> more detail and perhaps a light will shine for me on how to handle the
>> accounting data.
> To clarify your conclusions:
> One Project can have many Tasks. Yes
>> One Task can be assigned to (any-of-many) Staff Yes
>> One Staff can be working for (any-of-many) Agencies No, not in same
>> year


From: RAK on 16 Dec 2009 11:33
To clarify your conclusions:
One Project can have many Tasks. Yes
> One Task can be assigned to (any-of-many) Staff Yes
> One Staff can be working for (any-of-many) Agencies No, not in same year
Yes, thanks. This is the direction I was heading but got a little lost when
I started working on relational links and defining the foreign keys. The
AgencyStaff junction table appears to take care of the relationships for
staff & agency. But I'm not sure what relationships are defined in the
TaskAssignment junction table. Can I impose upon you for a little more detail
and perhaps a light will shine for me on how to handle the accounting data.
For instance if I have
>a staff table and an agency table and a junction staff agency table;
>a project table and a task table and a junction project task table;
>an accounting table and a junction table for project staff;
does it look like I'm on the right path or did I get lost in the forest?
Can a junction table field be from another junction table or would it be
better to define the fields from individual tables.


"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

> The way you handle many-many relationships in Access is via a junction
> table.
>
> It sounds like you are saying that:
>
> One Project can have many Tasks.
> One Task can be assigned to (any-of-many) Staff
> One Staff can be working for (any-of-many) Agencies
>
> Sounds like:
> [Project] table - info specific to a project
> [Task] table - Task-specific info, including ProjectID (to which Project
> does this task belong?)
> [Agency] table - list of agencies and agency-specific info
> [Staff] table - AKA [Employee] table
> [AgencyStaff] table - a junction table, showing who worked for which
> agency during which time frame
> [TaskAssignment] table - a junction table, showing which AgencyStaffID
> worked on which TaskID
>
> But you're closer to your situation. Does the above make sense?
>
> Regards
>
> Jeff Boyce
> Microsoft Access MVP
>
> --
> Disclaimer: This author may have received products and services mentioned
> in this post. Mention and/or description of a product or service herein
> does not constitute endorsement thereof.
>
> Any code or pseudocode included in this post is offered "as is", with no
> guarantee as to suitability.
>
> You can thank the FTC of the USA for making this disclaimer
> possible/necessary.
>
> "RAK" <RAK(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:589C60C8-B28D-4D1C-A00A-19DB5F04B55A(a)microsoft.com...
> >I am trying to create an operational database. We hire temporary staff
> > through several different employment agencies to complete work on projects
> > for various clients. The term of employment is linked to individual
> > projects
> > which are time limited and include different assignments within each
> > project.
> > Many of the people we use have worked on many different projects at many
> > different times including several years. I started out thinking I needed 5
> > different tables and needed to use a many-many relationship. Here are the
> > 5
> > tables I identified with some types of data:
> > Employee_Personal (usual type data)
> > Employment_History (includes Dates hired, Projects assigned at different
> > times, employment title per project, performance records; rehire status)
> > Agency (related to each employee, # provided for each project; performance
> > of employees provided)
> > Project (Clients, Dates, subjects, teams needed, staff needed)
> > Accounting [(Hours to complete project-administration pre training,
> > training, execution and administrative client reporting); (staff cost
> > factors
> > computed for number of hours *title pay); (computer cost and needs per
> > project); space cost and needs per project)]
> >
> > I started looking at the tables to try to see what relationships I needed
> > and if I needed junction tables. I didn't know how to handle the different
> > dates of employment and different assignments for each employee and
> > wondered
> > if I could use multi-valued fields or value lists for this data. Then I
> > started doubting if I was going in the right direction and thought I'd see
> > if
> > I could get any help.
> >
>
>
> .
>
First  |  Prev  |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3
Prev: "Normalizing" imported data
Next: DB guide - STEVIE PIMPS AGAIN!