why is there not a lisp pc?
in [Lisp]
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From: Pascal J. Bourguignon on 31 Dec 2009 12:46 Alan Mackenzie <acm(a)muc.de> writes: > gavino <gavcomedy(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Dec 31, 6:13?am, Alan Mackenzie <a...(a)muc.de> wrote: >>> gavino <gavcom...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> > How was the interface on lisp machines? Any gui? graphics? video? No. It is well known that lisp machines were programmed with punch card and line printers. No GUI, no graphics, no video. Only paper and holes. We're in for serrious Artificial Intelligence work, not for video-games. >>> The interface was great. ?Yes, there was a gui - the LM was one of the >>> pioneers in the use of high resolution bit mapped graphics. ?Yes there >>> was graphics. > >>> Video? ?That's the Latin for "I see", and has no single meaning in the >>> realm of computing. > >>> -- >>> Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). > >> Oww cool. I took 6 years of latin. Forgive me. >> Lisp machine sounds capable. >> Video I mean something where one could play small clips in a player >> like mplayer. >> If they had something to capture video I am guna fall off my seat. > > No, there was nothing like this. The technology didn't exist yet. This > was in the mid-1980s when hard disk sizes, even on expensive > workstations, was measured in tens and hundreds of megabytes. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8612534856516244040# -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
From: Alan Mackenzie on 31 Dec 2009 13:26 Pascal J. Bourguignon <pjb(a)informatimago.com> wrote: > Alan Mackenzie <acm(a)muc.de> writes: >> gavino <gavcomedy(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Dec 31, 6:13?am, Alan Mackenzie <a...(a)muc.de> wrote: >>>> gavino <gavcom...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > How was the interface on lisp machines? Any gui? graphics? video? > No. It is well known that lisp machines were programmed with punch > card and line printers. No GUI, no graphics, no video. Only paper and > holes. We're in for serrious Artificial Intelligence work, not for > video-games. And a Happy New Year to you too, Pascal. :-) -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
From: gavino on 1 Jan 2010 18:44 On Dec 31 2009, 12:46 pm, p...(a)informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) wrote: > Alan Mackenzie <a...(a)muc.de> writes: > > gavino <gavcom...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Dec 31, 6:13?am, Alan Mackenzie <a...(a)muc.de> wrote: > >>> gavino <gavcom...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > How was the interface on lisp machines? Any gui? graphics? video? > > No. It is well known that lisp machines were programmed with punch > card and line printers. No GUI, no graphics, no video. Only paper > and holes. We're in for serrious Artificial Intelligence work, not > for video-games. > > > > >>> The interface was great. ?Yes, there was a gui - the LM was one of the > >>> pioneers in the use of high resolution bit mapped graphics. ?Yes there > >>> was graphics. > > >>> Video? ?That's the Latin for "I see", and has no single meaning in the > >>> realm of computing. > > >>> -- > >>> Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). > > >> Oww cool. I took 6 years of latin. Forgive me. > >> Lisp machine sounds capable. > >> Video I mean something where one could play small clips in a player > >> like mplayer. > >> If they had something to capture video I am guna fall off my seat. > > > No, there was nothing like this. The technology didn't exist yet. This > > was in the mid-1980s when hard disk sizes, even on expensive > > workstations, was measured in tens and hundreds of megabytes. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8612534856516244040# > > -- > __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ you sound dumb when you try and be patronizing like this, just letting you know
From: Ray on 12 Jan 2010 21:20 gavino wrote: > why is there not a lisp pc for under $300? > > with power of lisp could be quite grand.. Way back in the wayback there were lisp machines - workstations that came loaded with a lisp development environment and an operating system that was written in lisp and which was very well integrated with that development environment. They were nice. Some amazing work was done on them. And because of the environments where it was done and the business interests surrounding it, most of that work is now lost to us. This is a shame. The GNU public license managed to save UNIX from getting locked up in that way - but it did not come along in time to save the Lisp Machines. But they were not appropriate for any environment in which untrusted software can be run. Part of their "power" was that the OS did not defend itself from any potentially malicious code. In a unix system, you need both the (originally and usually, C) development tools *and* root privileges to hose your system and/or the network it's on. When I used 'bolics machines, all you needed was the development environment. There was no concept of a privileged account for administration, no concept of a user account that other parts of the system were protected from, and no concept of a program running with limited privileges. If it ran, it was root. And that was a *Necessary* feature of the so-called power of the Operating system. If running a Lispm today, I would not *DARE* run anything downloaded from the Internet. Not even a java applet embedded in a webpage. Bear
From: Ray on 12 Jan 2010 21:36
Alan Mackenzie wrote: > gavino <gavcomedy(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> would it be possible to write something like X windows in lisp? > The Lisp Machine had a windowing system. It is likely (though I don't > know for sure) that X Windows would have taken ideas, possibly even > design elements, from the LM windowing system. It definitely did. I used LispMs at college, and a lot of their windowing system design and UI elements got recycled in X. Presumably by way of Xerox PARC. Bear |