12 and 16-bit oscilloscopes
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From: miso on 15 Dec 2006 22:43 Fred Bartoli wrote: > miso(a)sushi.com a écrit : > > Tom Bruhns wrote: > >> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: > >> ... > >>> You can get the HP3562A used for under a grand. It is 14 bits and > >>> 100khz. It has GPIB to offload the data. > >> Should note it's 100kHz bandwidth; sampling is faster. Of course, it's > >> also BIG and HEAVY (and if something goes wrong inside, it may not be > >> easy to fix). > > > > It has a self-check, which makes the used purchase safer. The big > > advantage to the 3562 is the synchromized sine source. No edge effects, > > i.e. windowing errors. Big? You bet. ;-) > > > > I do have a 3563A which is the 16bit that followed the 3562A. Big and > noisy (fan) but excellent. > > The 3562A has service manuals available but I couldn't find the 3563A ones. > > -- > Thanks, > Fred. Are there 3562 manuals on line?
From: Fred Bartoli on 16 Dec 2006 02:30 miso(a)sushi.com a �crit : > Fred Bartoli wrote: >> miso(a)sushi.com a �crit : >>> Tom Bruhns wrote: >>>> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: >>>> ... >>>>> You can get the HP3562A used for under a grand. It is 14 bits and >>>>> 100khz. It has GPIB to offload the data. >>>> Should note it's 100kHz bandwidth; sampling is faster. Of course, it's >>>> also BIG and HEAVY (and if something goes wrong inside, it may not be >>>> easy to fix). >>> It has a self-check, which makes the used purchase safer. The big >>> advantage to the 3562 is the synchromized sine source. No edge effects, >>> i.e. windowing errors. Big? You bet. ;-) >>> >> I do have a 3563A which is the 16bit that followed the 3562A. Big and >> noisy (fan) but excellent. >> >> The 3562A has service manuals available but I couldn't find the 3563A ones. >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> Fred. > > Are there 3562 manuals on line? > I have them in case you can't find them, but I guess I got them either from the agilent web site, either from their ftp. -- Thanks, Fred.
From: miso on 16 Dec 2006 02:40 Fred Bartoli wrote: > miso(a)sushi.com a écrit : > > Fred Bartoli wrote: > >> miso(a)sushi.com a écrit : > >>> Tom Bruhns wrote: > >>>> miso(a)sushi.com wrote: > >>>> ... > >>>>> You can get the HP3562A used for under a grand. It is 14 bits and > >>>>> 100khz. It has GPIB to offload the data. > >>>> Should note it's 100kHz bandwidth; sampling is faster. Of course, it's > >>>> also BIG and HEAVY (and if something goes wrong inside, it may not be > >>>> easy to fix). > >>> It has a self-check, which makes the used purchase safer. The big > >>> advantage to the 3562 is the synchromized sine source. No edge effects, > >>> i.e. windowing errors. Big? You bet. ;-) > >>> > >> I do have a 3563A which is the 16bit that followed the 3562A. Big and > >> noisy (fan) but excellent. > >> > >> The 3562A has service manuals available but I couldn't find the 3563A ones. > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> Fred. > > > > Are there 3562 manuals on line? > > > > I have them in case you can't find them, but I guess I got them either > from the agilent web site, either from their ftp. > > > -- > Thanks, > Fred. ftp://ftp.agilent.com/pub/manuals/ I found them. Thanks.
From: vasile on 16 Dec 2006 15:53 Tom Bruhns wrote: > Chris Carlen wrote: > > Hi: > > > > Picotech seems to be the only supplier of these in low cost <$1500 flavors. > > > > But they are discontinuing their 16-bit version which had 96dB dynamic > > range: > > > > http://www.picotech.com/applications/resolution.html > > > > And there USB based 12-bit versions have 72dB rather than the 80dB of > > the parallel port versions. I expect they will dump the parallel ports > > eventually. > > > > This is a shame. The 16-bit unit is killer for low frequency/audio > > amplifier testing and general spectrum analysis. The FFT functions on > > 8-bit fast DSOs from Tek and Agilent are of limited usefulness due to > > meager 70dB range (with averaging). > > > > I have been communicating with Pico to try to encourage them to keep the > > 16-bit or develop another one. They haven't been very responsive. > > > > I will email the Cleverscope and notifiy them that they might consider > > filling the opening Pico is leaving. > > > > > > > > -- > > Good day! > > > > ________________________________________ > > Christopher R. Carlen > > Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist > > Sandia National Laboratories CA USA > > crcarleRemoveThis(a)BOGUSsandia.gov > > NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and > > "BOGUS" from email address to reply. > > Well, it won't fit in your "under $1500" budget, but HP/Agilent for > many years has been making a 23-bit 20Ms/s card. It's not necessarily > useful to 23 bits, but even by today's standards, the distortion and > spur performance isn't too shabby, and was certainly cutting-edge when > it was introduced. And in a stand-alone instrument, the HP/Agilent > 89410, especially those made around 2001 and later, should give you > pretty nice performance out to 10MHz. I can "see" signals 120dB below > full scale with a dB or so accuracy with mine Hi Tom, Did you have the curiosity of checking exactly the accuracy ? Below 100dB is quite difficult to claim 1dB accuracy, even with a 45.000$ VNA or spectrum analyzer. greetings, Vasile
From: Tom Bruhns on 16 Dec 2006 16:15
On Dec 16, 12:53 pm, "vasile" <picli...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Tom Bruhns wrote: > > Chris Carlen wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > Picotech seems to be the only supplier of these in low cost <$1500 flavors. > > > > But they are discontinuing their 16-bit version which had 96dB dynamic > > > range: > > > >http://www.picotech.com/applications/resolution.html > > > > And there USB based 12-bit versions have 72dB rather than the 80dB of > > > the parallel port versions. I expect they will dump the parallel ports > > > eventually. > > > > This is a shame. The 16-bit unit is killer for low frequency/audio > > > amplifier testing and general spectrum analysis. The FFT functions on > > > 8-bit fast DSOs from Tek and Agilent are of limited usefulness due to > > > meager 70dB range (with averaging). > > > > I have been communicating with Pico to try to encourage them to keep the > > > 16-bit or develop another one. They haven't been very responsive. > > > > I will email the Cleverscope and notifiy them that they might consider > > > filling the opening Pico is leaving. > > > > -- > > > Good day! > > > > ________________________________________ > > > Christopher R. Carlen > > > Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist > > > Sandia National Laboratories CA USA > > > crcarleRemoveT...(a)BOGUSsandia.gov > > > NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and > > > "BOGUS" from email address to reply. > > > Well, it won't fit in your "under $1500" budget, but HP/Agilent for > > many years has been making a 23-bit 20Ms/s card. It's not necessarily > > useful to 23 bits, but even by today's standards, the distortion and > > spur performance isn't too shabby, and was certainly cutting-edge when > > it was introduced. And in a stand-alone instrument, the HP/Agilent > > 89410, especially those made around 2001 and later, should give you > > pretty nice performance out to 10MHz. I can "see" signals 120dB below > > full scale with a dB or so accuracy with mine > Hi Tom, > Did you have the curiosity of checking exactly the accuracy ? > Below 100dB is quite difficult to claim 1dB accuracy, even with a > 45.000$ VNA or spectrum analyzer. > > greetings, > Vasile Hi Vasile, Well, yes, it was a bit more than idle curiosity. :-) The linearity of the ones with new ADC boards is generally quite good, noticably better than the ones with the older boards, and those weren't bad at all. Linearity to that level is not guaranteed, though. As you say, it's not trivial to test. Cheers, Tom |