A kerosene-fueled X-33 as a single stage to orbit vehicle.
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From: Pat Flannery on 23 Mar 2010 03:38 On 3/22/2010 9:55 AM, Jeff Findley wrote: > "J. Clarke"<jclarke.usenet(a)cox.net> wrote in message > news:ho7rdn12inj(a)news7.newsguy.com... >> SSTO, if it can be done at all with chemical fuels, is _barely_ doable. > > There are several expendable stages which could theoretically do SSTO, with > a usable payload, if launched by themselves. I've never heard of one that could do that without dropping something on the way up like Atlas did. Someone here* suggested that Thor might be able to do it, but that proved not to be the case. * Someone who owns a lot of cats and a machine gun, IIRC. :-) Pat
From: Robert Clark on 23 Mar 2010 00:57 On Mar 22, 2:53 pm, Pat Flannery <flan...(a)daktel.com> wrote: > ... The > advantages of high altitude fueling and launch for a Shuttle type > vehicle to avoid ice buildup on tankage using any sort of cryogenic > propellants go clean back to the Air Force/DARPA ALSV concept that > Dwayne Day is following the history of in The Space Review:http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1569/1http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1580/1http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1591/1 > Fluorine-deuterium? Oh, that will be cheap to use as fuel. ;-) > > Pat Thanks for those links. It has been rumored that the Air Force has tested such a system: Two-Stage-to-Orbit ''Blackstar'' System Shelved at Groom Lake? Mar 5, 2006 By William B. Scott http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/030606p1.xml TSTO spaceplanes. http://robotpig.net/aerospace/en_tsto.php Did Pentagon create orbital space plane? Magazine reports evidence for classified project, sparking some skepticism. By James Oberg, NBC News space analyst updated 5:10 p.m. ET, Mon., March. 6, 2006 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11691989/ Bob Clark
From: Robert Clark on 23 Mar 2010 07:23 On Mar 23, 3:38 am, Pat Flannery <flan...(a)daktel.com> wrote: > On 3/22/2010 9:55 AM, Jeff Findley wrote: > > > "J. Clarke"<jclarke.use...(a)cox.net> wrote in message > >news:ho7rdn12inj(a)news7.newsguy.com... > >> SSTO, if it can be done at all with chemical fuels, is _barely_ doable.. > > > There are several expendable stages which could theoretically do SSTO, with > > a usable payload, if launched by themselves. > > I've never heard of one that could do that without dropping something on > the way up like Atlas did. > Someone here* suggested that Thor might be able to do it, but that > proved not to be the case. > > * Someone who owns a lot of cats and a machine gun, IIRC. :-) > > Pat The main example is the Titan II first stage: Single-stage-to-orbit. "Single-stage rockets were once thought to be beyond reach, but advances in materials technology and construction techniques have shown them to be possible. For example, calculations show that the Titan II first stage, launched on its own, would have a 25-to-1 ratio of fuel to vehicle hardware.[1] It has a sufficiently efficient engine to achieve orbit, but without carrying much payload." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stage-to-orbit#Dense_versus_hydrogen_fuels This is notable since the Titan II was operational since the earliest days of orbital rockets in the early 60's. The Titan II was being fired even up to 2003 and there are still some left unfired. So we could still do this proof of principle launch with a Titan II first stage to prove SSTO is possible. Such a launch with the Titan II or Falcon 1 first stages would be fundamentally important to the future development of low cost space access. It would have a similar effect as to the first breaking of the sound barrier. In the field of rocketry, it would be the single biggest advance since Robert Goddard first successfully fired liquid-fueled rockets. Bob Clark
From: Robert Clark on 23 Mar 2010 07:46 On Mar 23, 7:23 am, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mar 23, 3:38 am, Pat Flannery <flan...(a)daktel.com> wrote: > > > > > On 3/22/2010 9:55 AM, Jeff Findley wrote: > > > > "J. Clarke"<jclarke.use...(a)cox.net> wrote in message > > >news:ho7rdn12inj(a)news7.newsguy.com... > > >> SSTO, if it can be done at all with chemical fuels, is _barely_ doable. > > > > There are several expendable stages which could theoretically do SSTO, with > > > a usable payload, if launched by themselves. > > > I've never heard of one that could do that without dropping something on > > the way up like Atlas did. > > Someone here* suggested that Thor might be able to do it, but that > > proved not to be the case. > > > * Someone who owns a lot of cats and a machine gun, IIRC. :-) > > > Pat > > The main example is the Titan II first stage: > > Single-stage-to-orbit. > "Single-stage rockets were once thought to be beyond reach, but > advances in materials technology and construction techniques have > shown them to be possible. For example, calculations show that the > Titan II first stage, launched on its own, would have a 25-to-1 ratio > of fuel to vehicle hardware.[1] It has a sufficiently efficient > engine to achieve orbit, but without carrying much payload."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stage-to-orbit#Dense_versus_hydro... > > This is notable since the Titan II was operational since the earliest > days of orbital rockets in the early 60's. The Titan II was being > fired even up to 2003 and there are still some left unfired. So we > could still do this proof of principle launch with a Titan II first > stage to prove SSTO is possible. > Such a launch with the Titan II or Falcon 1 first stages would be > fundamentally important to the future development of low cost space > access. It would have a similar effect as to the first breaking of the > sound barrier. > In the field of rocketry, it would be the single biggest advance > since Robert Goddard first successfully fired liquid-fueled rockets. > See the discussion here for some other examples of SSTO's possible since the earliest days of launch vehicles: Newsgroups: sci.space.history From: he...(a)spsystems.net (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:26:23 GMT Subject: Re: Single stage to orbit, Atlas http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.history/msg/81cf0052339d7ec1?hl=en Bob Clark
From: Robert Clark on 23 Mar 2010 07:54
On Mar 18, 3:02 pm, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > ... > > Note that the other half-scale suborbital demonstrators for the NASA > RLV program by Rockwell and McDonnell-Douglas (see images linked > below) could be built for comparable prices and would likewise become > full orbital craft by switching to kerosene or other dense propellant. > Then we could have 3 separate designs for fully reusable SSTO vehicles > at costs that could allow fully private financing that would > significantly reduce launch costs and would allow manned flights. > > Successful operation of these X-33-sized orbital vehicles at a profit > would encourage private financing to build the full-scale VentureStar- > sized RLV's that could bring launch costs down to the $100 to $200 per > kilo range. > > Bob Clark > > http://www.astronautix.com/nails/x/x33rock.jpg > > http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/x/x33p4.jpg For unknown reasons Google puts all sorts of extraneous junk at the beginning and end of links in posts on Google Groups which prevented those image links from operating. You can copy and paste the image links in the address bar to pull up the images: "http://www.astronautix.com/nails/x/x33rock.jpg" "http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/x/x33p4.jpg" Bob Clark |