A modal falacy
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From: LudovicoVan on 2 Sep 2009 15:12 On 2 Sep, 12:27, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...(a)tesco.net> wrote: > BBC journalists seem not to understand the difference between > > Gordon Brown did not want Magrahi to die in prison. > > and > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die not-in-prison. There might be a third, I think: Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi not to die in prison. As a foreign English speaker, I'd greatly appreciate if you or anyone else could explain the differences in meaning among them: to me the second doesn't sound proper English at all, while I can't get the difference between the other two... -LV
From: William Elliot on 3 Sep 2009 00:30 On Wed, 2 Sep 2009, LudovicoVan wrote: > On 2 Sep, 12:27, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...(a)tesco.net> > wrote: > >> BBC journalists seem not to understand the difference between >> >> Gordon Brown did not want Magrahi to die in prison. >> >> and >> >> Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die not-in-prison. Yuck, stilted English. > There might be a third, I think: > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi not to die in prison. > Actually it's the second, a correct English version of the second. > As a foreign English speaker, I'd greatly appreciate if you or anyone > else could explain the differences in meaning among them: to me the > second doesn't sound proper English at all, while I can't get the > difference between the other two... > It's improper useage of English. Your third and the acclaimed second mean the same. What's Gordon Brown doing meddling in Scottish affairs?
From: A Nony Mouse on 3 Sep 2009 01:12 In article <c2f24455-0557-4dce-8cb8-91faddd8c61f(a)m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, LudovicoVan <julio(a)diegidio.name> wrote: > On 2 Sep, 12:27, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...(a)tesco.net> > wrote: > > > BBC journalists seem not to understand the difference between > > > > � �Gordon Brown did not want Magrahi to die in prison. > > > > and > > > > � �Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die not-in-prison. > > There might be a third, I think: > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi not to die in prison. > > As a foreign English speaker, I'd greatly appreciate if you or anyone > else could explain the differences in meaning among them: to me the > second doesn't sound proper English at all, while I can't get the > difference between the other two... The second one might properly be paraphrased as Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die but out of prison. Your statement and the first one are very close in meaning, at least to the eye of a native English speaker.
From: Frederick Williams on 3 Sep 2009 03:32 LudovicoVan wrote: > > On 2 Sep, 12:27, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...(a)tesco.net> > wrote: > > > BBC journalists seem not to understand the difference between > > > > Gordon Brown did not want Magrahi to die in prison. > > > > and > > > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die not-in-prison. > > There might be a third, I think: > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi not to die in prison. > > As a foreign English speaker, I'd greatly appreciate if you or anyone > else could explain the differences in meaning among them: to me the > second doesn't sound proper English at all, You're right, it isn't! > while I can't get the > difference between the other two... Well look: a new-born baby did not want Magrahi to die in prison because new-born babies don't want anything except to be fed and to sleep. But it is false that said baby wanted Magrahi not to die in prison. -- Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile / Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god / Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested.
From: Frederick Williams on 3 Sep 2009 03:36
A Nony Mouse wrote: > > In article > <c2f24455-0557-4dce-8cb8-91faddd8c61f(a)m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > LudovicoVan <julio(a)diegidio.name> wrote: > > > On 2 Sep, 12:27, Frederick Williams <frederick.willia...(a)tesco.net> > > wrote: > > > > > BBC journalists seem not to understand the difference between > > > > > > Gordon Brown did not want Magrahi to die in prison. > > > > > > and > > > > > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die not-in-prison. > > > > There might be a third, I think: > > > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi not to die in prison. > > > > As a foreign English speaker, I'd greatly appreciate if you or anyone > > else could explain the differences in meaning among them: to me the > > second doesn't sound proper English at all, while I can't get the > > difference between the other two... > > > The second one might properly be paraphrased as > > Gordon Brown wanted Magrahi to die but out of prison. > > Your statement and the first one are very close in meaning, at least to > the eye of a native English speaker. No, they're not. Consider: a new-born baby did not want Magrahi to die in prison because new-born babies don't want anything except to be fed and to sleep. But it is false that said baby wanted Magrahi to die but out of prison. -- Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile / Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god / Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested. |