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From: Y.Porat on 29 Dec 2009 12:14 On Dec 29, 12:54 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:d3a5079e-5a7f-4304-a908-93d5600b5038(a)e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Dec 29, 1:28 am, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > >> "Anti Vigilante" <antivigila...(a)pyrabang.com> wrote in message > > >>news:hhauip$e88$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > >> > On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:04:19 +1100, Inertial wrote: > > >> >> "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:f443926e-9fb3-4d6a-9c85- > >> > cae0fe2bf...(a)a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > >> >>> On Dec 27, 1:59 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>> On 12/26/09 5:42 PM, Spencer Spindrift wrote: > > >> >>>> > Q.: How is it that a photon has momentum but no mass? > >> >>>> >     Or in other words how does light carry energy? As far as I > >> >>>> >     know momentum is a property of moving or spinning > >> >>>> > mass. > >> >>>> >     A photon cannot have mass or it would be infinite at C.. > > >> >>>> > A.; ??? > > >> >>>>   Some properties of photons based on measurements For inertial > >> >>>>   observers, photons propagate at c > > >> >>>>   From the quantum mechanical perspective > > >> >>>>    1. photons are emitted (by charged particles) 2. photons > >> >>>>    propagate at c > >> >>>>    3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles) > > >> >>>>   Photon momentum > >> >>>>    p = hν/c = h/λ > > >> >>>>   Photon Energy > >> >>>>    E = hν > > >> >>>>   Particle Chart - Standard Model > >> >>>>    http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~heroux/images/Particle_chart.jpg > > >> >>>>   Conservation of momentum holds. One way to measure photon > >> >>>> momentum > >> >>>>   is to it to measure the change in momentum of what absorbs or > >> >>>> emits > >> >>>>   a photon. > > >> >>> ------------------- > >> >>> the Planck constant  HAS MASS !! > > >> >> No .. it has DIMENSIONS of mass.  It doesn't HAVE mass .. it would > >> >> need > >> >> to be an actual physical entity to have mass.  All it is is a > >> >> numerical > >> >> relationship between energy and frequency (and occurs in a number of > >> >> formulas) .. the dimensions of it are simply what is required to make > >> >> dimensional analysis work for the formula that expresses that > >> >> proportionality. > > >> > Except Newtons have dimensions of mass which multiplied by distance > >> > have > >> > the value of Work which has the same dimensions as energy. > > >> Yes they do.  That doesn't mean work if an entity that has a mass.. > > >> > What's the point of dimensional analysis if you can just wave it all > >> > away > >> > by claiming it's purely mathematical? > > >> No-one said to wave it away. > > >> There is a difference between a number having dimensions of mass, and > >> saying > >> it has mass.  It can't have mass .. its jsut a number.  Its not a > >> measurement of a physical entity.  Its a numerical proportion. > > >> > Incidentally Energy also has dimensions of mass. > > >> Which is why the constant proportion 'h' has dimension of mass (among > >> others) .. it is given whatever dimensions that are required to satisfy > >> dimensional analysis. > > > ------------------- > > dont you see that 'Inertial'(Ffeuerbacher)  is an imbecile psychopath > > and crook as well  ?? > > I am none of those things, nor that person.  Not even from the same > continent as him.  You're such a senile old fool, Porat. ----------------- ---lier --------------
From: Inertial on 29 Dec 2009 18:22 "Anti Vigilante" <antivigilante(a)pyrabang.com> wrote in message news:hhd6qm$rvp$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> Which is why the constant proportion 'h' has dimension of mass (among >>> others) .. it is given whatever dimensions that are required to satisfy >>> dimensional analysis. > > You don't get dimensions for free. If, as Planck did, you observe that Energy of a photon is proportional to its frequency, then the dimensions of the constant numerical ratio between them are dictated by the dimensions of energy and frequency. Its very simple. 'h' is the result, its dimensions MUST BE such that the dimensional analysis is correct, and its numeric value dependant on the particular system of units you use.
From: Inertial on 29 Dec 2009 18:23 "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:ddb959d9-6a9e-4a52-ad8f-cfd8be14b891(a)k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 29, 12:54 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: >> "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:d3a5079e-5a7f-4304-a908-93d5600b5038(a)e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On Dec 29, 1:28 am, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: >> >> "Anti Vigilante" <antivigila...(a)pyrabang.com> wrote in message >> >> >>news:hhauip$e88$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> >> > On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:04:19 +1100, Inertial wrote: >> >> >> >> "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:f443926e-9fb3-4d6a-9c85- >> >> > cae0fe2bf...(a)a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >> >> >>> On Dec 27, 1:59 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>> On 12/26/09 5:42 PM, Spencer Spindrift wrote: >> >> >> >>>> > Q.: How is it that a photon has momentum but no mass? >> >> >>>> > Or in other words how does light carry energy? As far as >> >> >>>> > I >> >> >>>> > know momentum is a property of moving or spinning >> >> >>>> > mass. >> >> >>>> > A photon cannot have mass or it would be infinite at C.. >> >> >> >>>> > A.; ??? >> >> >> >>>> Some properties of photons based on measurements For inertial >> >> >>>> observers, photons propagate at c >> >> >> >>>> From the quantum mechanical perspective >> >> >> >>>> 1. photons are emitted (by charged particles) 2. photons >> >> >>>> propagate at c >> >> >>>> 3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles) >> >> >> >>>> Photon momentum >> >> >>>> p = hν/c = h/λ >> >> >> >>>> Photon Energy >> >> >>>> E = hν >> >> >> >>>> Particle Chart - Standard Model >> >> >>>> http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~heroux/images/Particle_chart.jpg >> >> >> >>>> Conservation of momentum holds. One way to measure photon >> >> >>>> momentum >> >> >>>> is to it to measure the change in momentum of what absorbs or >> >> >>>> emits >> >> >>>> a photon. >> >> >> >>> ------------------- >> >> >>> the Planck constant HAS MASS !! >> >> >> >> No .. it has DIMENSIONS of mass. It doesn't HAVE mass .. it would >> >> >> need >> >> >> to be an actual physical entity to have mass. All it is is a >> >> >> numerical >> >> >> relationship between energy and frequency (and occurs in a number >> >> >> of >> >> >> formulas) .. the dimensions of it are simply what is required to >> >> >> make >> >> >> dimensional analysis work for the formula that expresses that >> >> >> proportionality. >> >> >> > Except Newtons have dimensions of mass which multiplied by distance >> >> > have >> >> > the value of Work which has the same dimensions as energy. >> >> >> Yes they do. That doesn't mean work if an entity that has a mass. >> >> >> > What's the point of dimensional analysis if you can just wave it all >> >> > away >> >> > by claiming it's purely mathematical? >> >> >> No-one said to wave it away. >> >> >> There is a difference between a number having dimensions of mass, and >> >> saying >> >> it has mass. It can't have mass .. its jsut a number. Its not a >> >> measurement of a physical entity. Its a numerical proportion. >> >> >> > Incidentally Energy also has dimensions of mass. >> >> >> Which is why the constant proportion 'h' has dimension of mass (among >> >> others) .. it is given whatever dimensions that are required to >> >> satisfy >> >> dimensional analysis. >> >> > ------------------- >> > dont you see that 'Inertial'(Ffeuerbacher) is an imbecile psychopath >> > and crook as well ?? >> >> I am none of those things, nor that person. Not even from the same >> continent as him. You're such a senile old fool, Porat. > ----------------- > ---lier > -------------- Yes .. you are .. very clearly .. only it is spelt 'liar' .. you can't even get *that* right.
From: Y.Porat on 30 Dec 2009 06:37 On Dec 30, 1:23 am, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:ddb959d9-6a9e-4a52-ad8f-cfd8be14b891(a)k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Dec 29, 12:54 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > >> "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >>news:d3a5079e-5a7f-4304-a908-93d5600b5038(a)e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com.... > > >> > On Dec 29, 1:28 am, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > >> >> "Anti Vigilante" <antivigila...(a)pyrabang.com> wrote in message > > >> >>news:hhauip$e88$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > >> >> > On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:04:19 +1100, Inertial wrote: > > >> >> >> "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >> >> >> news:f443926e-9fb3-4d6a-9c85- > >> >> > cae0fe2bf...(a)a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > >> >> >>> On Dec 27, 1:59 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >>>> On 12/26/09 5:42 PM, Spencer Spindrift wrote: > > >> >> >>>> > Q.: How is it that a photon has momentum but no mass? > >> >> >>>> >     Or in other words how does light carry energy? As far as > >> >> >>>> > I > >> >> >>>> >     know momentum is a property of moving or spinning > >> >> >>>> > mass. > >> >> >>>> >     A photon cannot have mass or it would be infinite at C.. > > >> >> >>>> > A.; ??? > > >> >> >>>>   Some properties of photons based on measurements For inertial > >> >> >>>>   observers, photons propagate at c > > >> >> >>>>   From the quantum mechanical perspective > > >> >> >>>>    1. photons are emitted (by charged particles) 2. photons > >> >> >>>>    propagate at c > >> >> >>>>    3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles) > > >> >> >>>>   Photon momentum > >> >> >>>>    p = hν/c = h/λ > > >> >> >>>>   Photon Energy > >> >> >>>>    E = hν > > >> >> >>>>   Particle Chart - Standard Model > >> >> >>>>    http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~heroux/images/Particle_chart.jpg > > >> >> >>>>   Conservation of momentum holds. One way to measure photon > >> >> >>>> momentum > >> >> >>>>   is to it to measure the change in momentum of what absorbs or > >> >> >>>> emits > >> >> >>>>   a photon. > > >> >> >>> ------------------- > >> >> >>> the Planck constant  HAS MASS !! > > >> >> >> No .. it has DIMENSIONS of mass.  It doesn't HAVE mass .. it would > >> >> >> need > >> >> >> to be an actual physical entity to have mass.  All it is is a > >> >> >> numerical > >> >> >> relationship between energy and frequency (and occurs in a number > >> >> >> of > >> >> >> formulas) .. the dimensions of it are simply what is required to > >> >> >> make > >> >> >> dimensional analysis work for the formula that expresses that > >> >> >> proportionality. > > >> >> > Except Newtons have dimensions of mass which multiplied by distance > >> >> > have > >> >> > the value of Work which has the same dimensions as energy. > > >> >> Yes they do.  That doesn't mean work if an entity that has a mass. > > >> >> > What's the point of dimensional analysis if you can just wave it all > >> >> > away > >> >> > by claiming it's purely mathematical? > > >> >> No-one said to wave it away. > > >> >> There is a difference between a number having dimensions of mass, and > >> >> saying > >> >> it has mass.  It can't have mass .. its jsut a number.  Its not a > >> >> measurement of a physical entity.  Its a numerical proportion. > > >> >> > Incidentally Energy also has dimensions of mass. > > >> >> Which is why the constant proportion 'h' has dimension of mass (among > >> >> others) .. it is given whatever dimensions that are required to > >> >> satisfy > >> >> dimensional analysis. > > >> > ------------------- > >> > dont you see that 'Inertial'(Ffeuerbacher)  is an imbecile psychopath > >> > and crook as well  ?? > > >> I am none of those things, nor that person.  Not even from the same > >> continent as him.  You're such a senile old fool, Porat. > > ----------------- > > ---lier > > -------------- > > Yes .. you are .. very clearly .. only it is spelt 'liar' .. you can't even > get *that* right. F.F.F.F. (:-) Y.P ---------------------
From: cjcountess on 30 Dec 2009 11:11
1) Planck discovered E=hf for photons 2) Einstein discovered E=mc^2 for electron's/matter 3) deBroglie discovered (E=hf) = (E=mc^2) for electron of -1 charge, and that electron was also a wave. 4) Bohr discovered that the wavelength of electron is equal to circumference of circle with angular momentum of a multiple integer of h/2pi 5) Therefore it follows from this and other evidence, that (E=mc^2) = (E= mc^circled) and c=(square root of -1) If we draw progressively shorter waves, with progressively higher energy, we will evidentially arrive at a wave whose 90 degree angular energy/momentum equals its linear energy/momentum, which create a balance of centripetal and centrifugal forces, and 90 degree arc, which if constant creates a circle in 2d, or a spherical wave in 3d. This 3d wave makes two rotations in order to complete one wave cycle, (spin1/2) and also spins backward counter to it trajectory in half the cases which is how electron gets its -1 charge. In the other half of cases a forward spinning positron emerged. A smooth transition from photon to electron, energy to matter, along the same EM spectrum, which might from now on be called the (energy/ matter), spectrum as well as (electromagnetic), is geometrically demonstrated. Photons do have constant mass/energy = to h, that come from kinetic energy of constant speed of c. Mass / energy increases with frequency increase at (E=hf/c^2) until it reaches (E=hf=c^2) or (E=hf=mc^2) as deBroglie stated, at which it attains rest mass. Rest mass is just relative mass in circular and or spherical rotation, such as a standing spherical waves, (electron). Therefore (E=hf /c2), the equation for quantum energy/ mass = (F=mm/ r2), Newtons equation for gravity, minus the big G, sense h is its own constant, and (F=mv2), the equation of force or energy of mass in motion = (E=mc2), the equation for energy/mass equivalence, on the quantum level and (a=v2/r) = (a=c2/c). And so the same force that compresses energy into rest mass particles at (E=hf/c2) = (E=mc2) pushes rest mass particles together at (F=mv/r2) = (F=Gmm/r2). They are equivalent at quantum level and directly proportional at macro level. See:http://docs.google.com/View?docID=0ATiDkGLEqaE- ZHNuNXE2Zl8xMDFoZ3RqdjlmYg&revision=_latest Conrad J Countess |