A suggestion for DSP consultants
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From: Clay on 19 May 2010 10:26 On May 18, 8:52 pm, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos...(a)nowhere.com> wrote: > Rick Lyons wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > here's a thought for those of you who are consultants, > > or work for small companies doing consulting work. > > > The next time your potential customer comments in a > > negative way about your consulting fee, consider saying > > the following to your customer: > > > "Yes, professionals are expensive. However, try > > doing the job with amateurs." > > I'd say something is not right if it comes down to that kind of whoring. > Normally, they don't negotiate with doctors, lawyers or consultants. > Either the price is set way over reasonable, or the prospect has no > realistic idea how much is the cost for this kind of work. > > Vladimir Vassilevsky > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultanthttp://www.abvolt.com Another thing is to remember if the client knows how to do it, he likely doesn't need you unless he is simply short of manpower. But my experience is the client also often needs some special knowledge or skill that you can provide. A few times I had someone want something complex for a ridiculusly cheap price. Those kinds of deals just can't go forward. Better clients listen to you, and you work out a deal with them. my 2 cents worth. Clay
From: Clay on 19 May 2010 10:45 On May 19, 9:38 am, Rick Lyons <R.Lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote: > On Wed, 19 May 2010 01:21:31 +0100, Symon <symon_bre...(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > >On 5/18/2010 11:50 PM, Rick Lyons wrote: > > >> Hi Guys, > >> here's a thought for those of you who are consultants, > >> or work for small companies doing consulting work. > > >> The next time your potential customer comments in a > >> negative way about your consulting fee, consider saying > >> the following to your customer: > > >> "Yes, professionals are expensive. However, try > >> doing the job with amateurs." > > >> See Ya', > >> [-Rick-] > > >Hi there, > > >Would the etymology of the word 'amateur' may make you reconsider that > >reply? I love DSP too! > > Hello Symon, > Ha ha. I just happen to know what you're talking > about. When I checked my dictionary, to ensure that > I spelled "amateur" correctly, I was surprised to read > the word "amateur" was defined as: > > 1. devotee, admirer; > 2. one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or > a sport as a pastime rather than as a profession; > 3. one lacking in experience and competence in an > art or science. > > In my post I intended "amateur" to mean Definition# 3. > However, I'm somewhat familiar with Definition# 2, for > example: an "amateur astronomer" (like Clay Turner). > However, I've never heard that Definition# 1 before. > How strange that it's listed as the number 1 (primary) > definition of "amateur". > > And yes, I did happen to see that the word "amateur" > comes from the Latin word "amator", meaning lover. > I've never equated the word "amateur" with "lover." > > Symon your post reminds me of: > > "When I use a word, 'Humpty Dumpty said, in > rather a scornful tone,` it means just what I > choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." > --Humpty Dumpty in Chapter VI > of 'Through the Looking Glass' > by Lewis Carroll > > Ha ha. > > See Ya', > [-Rick-]- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Rick thanks for the amateur astronomer reference. I certainly do the astro for the love of it, because no one pays me to sit out in the dark on cold nights to look up at the sky ;-) But I do know professional astronomers (from school) and obviously they are paid to do astronomy. Unfortunately many link the term "amateur" to also mean lower quality or lessor ability. And certainly some amateurs are just starting out, so their skills and knowledge would not compare with a pro's. But some amateurs have very advanced skills and experienced pros recognize this. And I've actually heard many arguments back and forth between pros and amateurs as to what each classification really means. I don't worry about it much. But that topic raises its head in the photography forums (fora) often. At least in astro, many professional astronomers happily accept the inputs and data from amateurs (maybe we should call them volunteer astronomers?). The astro community knows that more eyes looking up is better and ccd cameras with gps tagging provide excellent quality data. A wonderful example happens when an object (say an asteroid) is predicted to pass in front of (occult) a star. Precise gps tagged brightness measurements collected from many locations on the planet can actually provide data on the crossectional outline of the object. Cool huh? Just thought you might be interested. Clay p.s. I'm not currently paid to do DSP, so I guess I'm an amateur DSPer ;-)
From: Eric Jacobsen on 19 May 2010 10:48 On 5/18/2010 5:52 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote: > > > Rick Lyons wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> here's a thought for those of you who are consultants, or work for >> small companies doing consulting work. >> The next time your potential customer comments in a negative way about >> your consulting fee, consider saying the following to your customer: >> >> "Yes, professionals are expensive. However, try doing the job with >> amateurs." > > I'd say something is not right if it comes down to that kind of whoring. > Normally, they don't negotiate with doctors, lawyers or consultants. > Either the price is set way over reasonable, or the prospect has no > realistic idea how much is the cost for this kind of work. > > > Vladimir Vassilevsky > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant > http://www.abvolt.com Actually, it's not unusual or unheard of to negotiate prices with doctors, lawyers, and consultants. Especially these days. One of the more disappointing things I see, unfortunately regularly, is when we get turned down for being "too expensive" and then get called back in later (or not) to fix some money-and-time-sucking disaster that was attempted to be done with less cost. You can't ever really say, "I told you so", but it makes me cringe to see 3x the money thrown at something over 3x the time it should have taken on a job we lost because we were "too expensive". -- Eric Jacobsen Minister of Algorithms Abineau Communications http://www.abineau.com
From: Clay on 19 May 2010 10:56 On May 19, 10:48 am, Eric Jacobsen <eric.jacob...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > On 5/18/2010 5:52 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote: > > > > > > > > > Rick Lyons wrote: > > >> Hi Guys, > >> here's a thought for those of you who are consultants, or work for > >> small companies doing consulting work. > >> The next time your potential customer comments in a negative way about > >> your consulting fee, consider saying the following to your customer: > > >> "Yes, professionals are expensive. However, try doing the job with > >> amateurs." > > > I'd say something is not right if it comes down to that kind of whoring.. > > Normally, they don't negotiate with doctors, lawyers or consultants. > > Either the price is set way over reasonable, or the prospect has no > > realistic idea how much is the cost for this kind of work. > > > Vladimir Vassilevsky > > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant > >http://www.abvolt.com > > Actually, it's not unusual or unheard of to negotiate prices with > doctors, lawyers, and consultants. Especially these days. > > One of the more disappointing things I see, unfortunately regularly, is > when we get turned down for being "too expensive" and then get called > back in later (or not) to fix some money-and-time-sucking disaster that > was attempted to be done with less cost. You can't ever really say, "I > told you so", but it makes me cringe to see 3x the money thrown at > something over 3x the time it should have taken on a job we lost because > we were "too expensive". > > -- > Eric Jacobsen > Minister of Algorithms > Abineau Communicationshttp://www.abineau.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I was discussing with a friend just last night about a contract where he estimated a year. The client said they don't have that long and went away. Now they come back to him after screwing around their own for 6 months and want him to fix it in the remaining 6 months of his original estimate. What Fun! I like the sign in mechanic's shops that say labor $75/hour ----- $150/hour if you watch. Clay
From: dvsarwate on 19 May 2010 11:38
On May 19, 9:45 am, Clay <c...(a)claysturner.com> wrote: > > Unfortunately many link the term "amateur" to also mean lower quality > or lessor ability. And certainly some amateurs are just starting out, > so their skills and knowledge would not compare with a pro's. But some > amateurs have very advanced skills and experienced pros recognize > this. > Consider the difference between a minister (as in a church) and an ordinary person with high moral standards. One is paid to be good (a professional) while the other is good for nothing.... |