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From: Jerry Avins on 19 May 2010 11:55 On 5/19/2010 11:38 AM, dvsarwate wrote: > On May 19, 9:45 am, Clay<c...(a)claysturner.com> wrote: >> >> Unfortunately many link the term "amateur" to also mean lower quality >> or lessor ability. And certainly some amateurs are just starting out, >> so their skills and knowledge would not compare with a pro's. But some >> amateurs have very advanced skills and experienced pros recognize >> this. >> > > Consider the difference between a minister (as in a church) > and an ordinary person with high moral standards. One is > paid to be good (a professional) while the other is good > for nothing.... Dilip, I take it that you're familiar with the half-sandwich fallacy. Jerry -- "I view the progress of science as ... the slow erosion of the tendency to dichotomize." --Barbara Smuts, U. Mich. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
From: Tim Wescott on 19 May 2010 11:55 Clay wrote: > On May 18, 8:52 pm, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos...(a)nowhere.com> wrote: >> Rick Lyons wrote: >>> Hi Guys, >>> here's a thought for those of you who are consultants, >>> or work for small companies doing consulting work. >>> The next time your potential customer comments in a >>> negative way about your consulting fee, consider saying >>> the following to your customer: >>> "Yes, professionals are expensive. However, try >>> doing the job with amateurs." >> I'd say something is not right if it comes down to that kind of whoring. >> Normally, they don't negotiate with doctors, lawyers or consultants. >> Either the price is set way over reasonable, or the prospect has no >> realistic idea how much is the cost for this kind of work. >> >> Vladimir Vassilevsky >> DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultanthttp://www.abvolt.com > > Another thing is to remember if the client knows how to do it, he > likely doesn't need you unless he is simply short of manpower. But my > experience is the client also often needs some special knowledge or > skill that you can provide. A few times I had someone want something > complex for a ridiculusly cheap price. Those kinds of deals just can't > go forward. Better clients listen to you, and you work out a deal with > them. The "want something complex for a ridiculously low price" folks fall into two camps, too. The better kind (for me) are the ones where you can gently explain the complexity and why it's going to take a long time and they listen and understand. Sometimes they come back with enough resources to engage me. The worse kind are the ones who just want a free lunch, or who desperately need talent but can't trust it -- those are just cause for a shrug, and thankfulness at the escape. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com
From: Greg Berchin on 19 May 2010 13:08 On Wed, 19 May 2010 07:26:00 -0700 (PDT), Clay <clay(a)claysturner.com> wrote: >Another thing is to remember if the client knows how to do it, he >likely doesn't need you unless he is simply short of manpower. And then there is the client who THINKS he knows how to do it (but really doesn't), and is simply short of manpower. Those gigs can be nightmares. Greg
From: Rune Allnor on 19 May 2010 13:17 On 19 Mai, 19:08, Greg Berchin <gberc...(a)comicast.net.invalid> wrote: > On Wed, 19 May 2010 07:26:00 -0700 (PDT), Clay <c...(a)claysturner.com> wrote: > >Another thing is to remember if the client knows how to do it, he > >likely doesn't need you unless he is simply short of manpower. > > And then there is the client who THINKS he knows how to do it (but really > doesn't), and is simply short of manpower. Those gigs can be nightmares. Wring. Those jobs *are* nightmares. Carreer ending, even, for whatever engineer ends up getting involved. The trick is to recognize those things ASAP, and then walk away. Rune
From: Tim Wescott on 19 May 2010 13:22
Rune Allnor wrote: > On 19 Mai, 19:08, Greg Berchin <gberc...(a)comicast.net.invalid> wrote: >> On Wed, 19 May 2010 07:26:00 -0700 (PDT), Clay <c...(a)claysturner.com> wrote: >>> Another thing is to remember if the client knows how to do it, he >>> likely doesn't need you unless he is simply short of manpower. >> And then there is the client who THINKS he knows how to do it (but really >> doesn't), and is simply short of manpower. Those gigs can be nightmares. > > Wring. Those jobs *are* nightmares. Carreer ending, even, for > whatever > engineer ends up getting involved. Not necessarily, at least not in the US. Particularly if the company in question has developed a reputation for that sort of hubris with other managers in the area. > The trick is to recognize those things ASAP, and then walk away. Or give one go at explaining to the client why they don't really know -- then if they can't accept it, you walk away as cordially as possible. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com |