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From: GT on 30 Mar 2010 06:03
"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
news:hoqt6b$j6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> GT wrote:
>> Recomendations please for an AGP graphics card to sit in a media centre
>> PC:
>> I need it to decode HD video thereby taking the load off the athlon 2500
>> CPU.
>> On the gaming front, most demanding at the moment is Trackmania Nations
>> Forever at a decent resolution.
>> Physically, it can only be single height as the AGP slot is right next to
>> the edge of the small case.
>> I'm not convinced that there is much overhead in the PSU, so I would like
>> low power.
>> I would also like silent (passive only) or at least *very* quiet fan.
>>
>> There is an old radeon 8500 with custom fanless heatsink in there at the
>> moment and it simply can't handle HD video and even struggles with some
>> normal video (BBCi player, downloaded TV)!
>>
>> Full Current Spec:
>> Shuttle SK41 case with original motherboard (Forgotten model)
>> Athlon 2500
>> 1.5GB DDR2 (2 sticks)
>> 1x IDE drive
>> 1x DVD drive
>> 1x 120mm fan
>> 1x AGP Radeon 8500 (passive) - to be replaced.
>
> KM266 chipset ?
>
> http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html
>
> VIA KM266 (VT8375) Universal AGP Motherboard
>
> I guess that means 4X/8X cards will work.
>
> This one is fanless, and bridged (Rialto chip and pink protective
> plastic, on the back of the card). HD 3450.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102862
>
> HD 3450 uses RV620.
>
> http://www.gpureview.com/Radeon-HD-3450-AGP-card-582.html
>
> RV620 is UVD+.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVD
>
> RV620 Radeon HD 3400 Series UVD+

Would an HD 3450 be faster at 3d games than the 8500? Benchmarks are hard to
go on because the cards are different eras and the reviews compare different
games. 3dMark scores are also useless as they are different versions too.
Has anyone compared these two cards directly?


From: GT on 30 Mar 2010 06:14
"Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
news:hosidk$7o2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> GT wrote:
>> "GT" <ContactGT_rem_ove_(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4bb0c98e$0$7040$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
>>> Recomendations please for an AGP graphics card to sit in a media centre
>>> PC:
>>> I need it to decode HD video thereby taking the load off the athlon 2500
>>> CPU.
>>> On the gaming front, most demanding at the moment is Trackmania Nations
>>> Forever at a decent resolution.
>>> Physically, it can only be single height as the AGP slot is right next
>>> to the edge of the small case.
>>> I'm not convinced that there is much overhead in the PSU, so I would
>>> like low power.
>>> I would also like silent (passive only) or at least *very* quiet fan.
>>>
>>> There is an old radeon 8500 with custom fanless heatsink in there at the
>>> moment and it simply can't handle HD video and even struggles with some
>>> normal video (BBCi player, downloaded TV)!
>>
>> Anyone know the power draw of a Radeon 8500? There is not an entry for
>> power draw for this card on GPUReview.com and I can't find it on google.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20040411032947/http://www.takaman.jp/psu_calc.html?english
>
> VGA AGP = Radeon 8500 (estimated) 3.3V @ 4.5A + 5V @ 1A + 12V @ 1.5A =
> 37.85W
>
> HTH,
> Paul

Brilliant, thanks.


From: Paul on 30 Mar 2010 06:51
GT wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
> news:hoqt6b$j6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>> GT wrote:
>>> Recomendations please for an AGP graphics card to sit in a media centre
>>> PC:
>>> I need it to decode HD video thereby taking the load off the athlon 2500
>>> CPU.
>>> On the gaming front, most demanding at the moment is Trackmania Nations
>>> Forever at a decent resolution.
>>> Physically, it can only be single height as the AGP slot is right next to
>>> the edge of the small case.
>>> I'm not convinced that there is much overhead in the PSU, so I would like
>>> low power.
>>> I would also like silent (passive only) or at least *very* quiet fan.
>>>
>>> There is an old radeon 8500 with custom fanless heatsink in there at the
>>> moment and it simply can't handle HD video and even struggles with some
>>> normal video (BBCi player, downloaded TV)!
>>>
>>> Full Current Spec:
>>> Shuttle SK41 case with original motherboard (Forgotten model)
>>> Athlon 2500
>>> 1.5GB DDR2 (2 sticks)
>>> 1x IDE drive
>>> 1x DVD drive
>>> 1x 120mm fan
>>> 1x AGP Radeon 8500 (passive) - to be replaced.
>> KM266 chipset ?
>>
>> http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html
>>
>> VIA KM266 (VT8375) Universal AGP Motherboard
>>
>> I guess that means 4X/8X cards will work.
>>
>> This one is fanless, and bridged (Rialto chip and pink protective
>> plastic, on the back of the card). HD 3450.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102862
>>
>> HD 3450 uses RV620.
>>
>> http://www.gpureview.com/Radeon-HD-3450-AGP-card-582.html
>>
>> RV620 is UVD+.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVD
>>
>> RV620 Radeon HD 3400 Series UVD+
>
> Would an HD 3450 be faster at 3d games than the 8500? Benchmarks are hard to
> go on because the cards are different eras and the reviews compare different
> games. 3dMark scores are also useless as they are different versions too.
> Has anyone compared these two cards directly?
>

There is a seven year difference between the dates of introduction.
It would be pretty hard to find similar games being run on
cards that far apart.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=582&card2=22

Your best bet, might be to dig up some 3DMark2001se results.
You could run that bench on the R8500 yourself, and then
all you'd need to find is a result for the newer card.

http://majorgeeks.com/download99.html

Paul
From: kony on 30 Mar 2010 16:37
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:39:27 +0100, "GT"
<ContactGT_rem_ove_(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>Recomendations please for an AGP graphics card to sit in a media centre PC:
>I need it to decode HD video thereby taking the load off the athlon 2500
>CPU.
>On the gaming front, most demanding at the moment is Trackmania Nations
>Forever at a decent resolution.
>Physically, it can only be single height as the AGP slot is right next to
>the edge of the small case.
>I'm not convinced that there is much overhead in the PSU, so I would like
>low power.
>I would also like silent (passive only) or at least *very* quiet fan.
>
>There is an old radeon 8500 with custom fanless heatsink in there at the
>moment and it simply can't handle HD video and even struggles with some
>normal video (BBCi player, downloaded TV)!
>
>Full Current Spec:
>Shuttle SK41 case with original motherboard (Forgotten model)
>Athlon 2500
>1.5GB DDR2 (2 sticks)
>1x IDE drive
>1x DVD drive
>1x 120mm fan
>1x AGP Radeon 8500 (passive) - to be replaced.
>


It will be difficult to find something with both reasonable
(for what it is) modern gaming performance, AND single
height/quiet.

Overall I suspect you will need to either upgrade the PSU
(which probably isn't possible on the SK41?) or do without
reasonable gaming performance.

Personally what I would do at this point is not reuse the
motherboard and CPU, IF you can find one that fits the
case... perhaps something like an AM2+ compatible
motherboard reusing existing DDR2 memory and a low powered
Athlon ~ X2.

Wait a minute. That board, are you sure it's DD2 memory?
http://www.shuttle.eu/_archive/older/en/fx41.htm#mainboardfx4
If not it may raise my proposed project cost buy a couple
dozen dollars or whatever DDR2 costs these days.

If you can do that you'll have your HD video acceleration,
more CPU muscle to handle things that can't be HD
accelerated at all or fully, a longer expected tour of duty
from the motherboard since it's new, and you might cut a few
dozen watts off the power consumption while bodes well for
the electric bill, the system noise, and reducing strain on
an already anemic PSU.
From: Anoi Ance on 30 Mar 2010 21:09
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:31 +0100, GT frustrated with the OS wrote:

> "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message
> news:hoqt6b$j6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>> [quoted text muted]
>
> Would an HD 3450 be faster at 3d games than the 8500? Benchmarks are hard to
> go on because the cards are different eras and the reviews compare different
> games. 3dMark scores are also useless as they are different versions too.
> Has anyone compared these two cards directly?


I think these days especially if you have DD2 memory you could find a
CPU/mothwerboard combo under $80-100 w/ video that would handle your
needs. Like a Amd X4 635 Biostar AM2/2+ board w/ ATI HD3000 vga $90USD
that should be able to play all the HD + 5.1ch you need, when you need it.

Tom's hardware guide has an excellent interactive vga comparison guide
that lets you select and compare vga cards performances for different
application software. Any of the later vga card reviews should have a
chart at the conclusion that recommends which vga cards you would need
consider before you actually notice performance increases.

The issue you have now is finding a quiet DX9c, or DX10 AGP in case you do
want to play games, that fits your case and power supply. Another poster
recommended some of the older AGP VGA cards (ATI X850, 9650) but those
cards need to match your case and I wouldn't take any less than DX9c
capable.

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