An uncountable countable set
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From: Tony Orlow on 28 Sep 2006 07:04 Virgil wrote: > In article <451b3315(a)news2.lightlink.com>, > Tony Orlow <tony(a)lightlink.com> wrote: > >> Randy Poe wrote: >>> On rereading this, I think there was some confusion. Whether >>> through Tony deliberately misquoting, or a misunderstanding >>> on my part or Tony's, I'm not sure which. But Tony seems to >>> have conflated a statement I made about emptying with one >>> about filling. >>> >>> Tony Orlow wrote: >>>> Randy Poe wrote: >>> This was about emptying: >>> >>>>> It definitely empties, since every ball you put in is >>>>> later taken out. >>>> So, it definitely empties...... >>>> >>>>>> And, at the same time you >>>>>> say it does not do so at noon, nor does it do so before noon. When does >>>>>> this occur? >>> This was about "filling" when I said it: >>> >>>>> It doesn't. >>>> ...but it doesn't! >>> What I would say about emptying is that the vase is empty >>> at noon, but there is no identifiable time before noon at which >>> we can say "the last ball was taken out then". >>> >>> At any time before noon, there are balls in the vase. There >>> is no time we can say "there goes the last ball out" since there >>> is no last ball in. >>> >>> - Randy >>> >> If the vase is empty at noon, but not before, how can that not be the >> moment that it becomes empty? > > Saying that it is empty is quite different from saying anything about a > "last ball". andy does not deny that the vase becomes empty, he just > does not say anything about any "last ball out". Does that answer the question of **when** this occurs? Of course not.
From: Tony Orlow on 28 Sep 2006 07:05 Han de Bruijn wrote: > Randy Poe wrote, about the Balls in a Vase problem: > >> It definitely empties, since every ball you put in is >> later taken out. > > And _that_ individual calls himself a physicist? > > Han de Bruijn > Idi Amin declared himself King of Scotland. :) TOny
From: Tony Orlow on 28 Sep 2006 07:13 Han de Bruijn wrote: > Tony Orlow wrote: > >> Psychology (and I've studied it a bit) is only a science to the extent >> that it employs analysis. Most cognitive science uses at least >> statistics in order to establish any kind of certainty in its >> findings. I don't consider Freudian Analysis to be science. Do you? > > Why not? Does Freudian Analysis lead to a technology in a medical sense: > does it help to cure people from a mental disease? If the answer is yes, > then IMHO Freudian Analysis may be considered as a science. > > Han de Bruijn > Well, I am not at all clear that the answer to either of those questions is 'yes'. Freudian analysis is used less and less. Lying on a couch for years usually just results in lying on a couch for more years. Theories about symbolism in dreams or Oedipal complexes and such have really not panned out or been corroborated by any other findings. It's a non-falsifiable theory, because it's not a theory. It's a collection of highly subjective interpretations of psychic phenomena - a guess. I will freely admit that Freud planted a seed which grew into a science, but not that his methods were any more than social art and philosophy. I don't recall any scientific method used in his sessions. In fact, it has been revealed that he was pressured by the denial of his rich clients to explain their children's memories of sexual abuse in some other way - hence the Oedipal complex. Is that science? Tony
From: Tony Orlow on 28 Sep 2006 07:16 Han de Bruijn wrote: > Randy Poe wrote about the Balls in a Vase problem: > >> Tony Orlow wrote: >> >>> So, it definitely empties...... >> >> Yes. >>> >>> Wow, that's deep. Math is cool. >> >> Cool? Yes. >> >> Deep? I dunno. As I said, this is reasoning that I didn't >> have a major struggle with at the age of about 10. > > And, at that time, Randy didn't have a major struggle with Santa Claus > as well. > > Han de Bruijn > I thought he was a burglar when I was about 13 (I didn't believe in Santa Claus "any more" at the time) and we had quite a struggle. Knocked over the Christmas tree and almost started a fire. The old guy's pretty spry. I spent two days in the hospital. Do you know his bag works on the same principle as the vase? ;) Tony
From: Tony Orlow on 28 Sep 2006 07:18
Han de Bruijn wrote: > Randy Poe wrote: > >> What I would say about emptying is that the vase is empty >> at noon, but there is no identifiable time before noon at which >> we can say "the last ball was taken out then". >> >> At any time before noon, there are balls in the vase. There >> is no time we can say "there goes the last ball out" since there >> is no last ball in. > > What I would say about emptying is that the balls must have been filled > with liquor. And that you must have swallowed them all before you wrote > this post. > > Han de Bruijn > That's why Randy has that vase-like physique. It's from the distended liver! |