Ballistic Theory, Progress report...Suitable for 5yo Kids
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From: Black Knight on 13 Nov 2005 19:54 "Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message news:5cifn112k9r97ebi2h31k2loc8s4ofadkb(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:52:57 -0000, "George Dishman" > <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> > wrote: > >> >>"Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message >>news:omncn19cle09dml5jjtgdc7ib6bcsuvh0l(a)4ax.com... >>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:35:04 -0000, "George Dishman" >>> <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>"Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message >>>>news:9r5an1pjg0a2vce62k32juf9345b93kp9b(a)4ax.com... >>> >>> George, George, George. >>> >>> I have finally woken up to your (and MY) complete misinterpretation of >>> the >>> problem. >>> >>> We have both been arguing about whether or not the fringes will move >>> during >>> constant angular rotation...and of course they don't. >> >>Actually they do, that's exactly how fibre gyros work. >>The output is proportional to the angular velocity. >>That is why these devices are such important evidence >>and precisely why I have taken the trouble of bringing >>them to your attention. > > George, a few months ago, you (or maybe it was Paul) went to great trouble > to > explain to me that fringes shift only during angular acceleration. Gyros > indicate total rotation by continuously integrating the rate of fringe > shift > with time. > > Are you now saying this is wrong? > >>> We should only be considering what happens during angular ACCELERATION >>> !!!!!! >>> >>> That is when the two path lengths change. >>> That is when more 'wavelengths' fit into one path than the other. >>> That is when fringes move. >>> >>> Path lengths chaneg because each mirror accelerates slightly as light >>> from >>> the >>> previous one is in flight. Small second order effect, you say. No way! >>> It >>> is >>> the whole basis of operation. >> >>Acceleration is a more complex subject, involving Doppler >>at the source, Doppler at the receiver and the temporary >>lack of cancellation due to the flight time delay between. > > When acceleration occurs, path lengths vary. > The number of wavelengths in each path changes. > Fringes MOVE. > > It matters not whether the beam moves at c or c+v. > > During constant rotation, including zero, there is no fringe movement. > > >> >>> Actually, you have shown that the BaTh does what it should do. It >>> expects >>> NO >>> fringe shifts under constant rotation. >>> >>> BUT!!!! >>> The standard SR explanation says that there WILL BE a continuous fringe >>> shift >>> during steady rotation. >>> >>> Sagnac proves SR to be wrong!!! >> >>If the output was proportional to acceleration then you >>would be right. In fact the output is exactly what SR >>predicts, it is proportional to the angular velocity in >>actual devices and experiments. > > The output is given in degrees rotation from zero angle. That is > calculated via > a time integral during acceleration. > > > I think you and your colleagues should learn a few facts. > >> >>George >> > > > HW. Message rating: several casks. Amdrocles.
From: Black Knight on 13 Nov 2005 19:55 "Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message news:5vifn1hpot3i2kr8doc3daq19qnhdd4jcm(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 02:15:52 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> > wrote: > >>HW@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in >>news:omncn19cle09dml5jjtgdc7ib6bcsuvh0l(a)4ax.com: >> >>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:35:04 -0000, "George Dishman" >>> <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>>"Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message >>>>news:9r5an1pjg0a2vce62k32juf9345b93kp9b(a)4ax.com... >>> >>> George, George, George. >>> >>> I have finally woken up to your (and MY) complete misinterpretation of >>> the problem. >>> >>> We have both been arguing about whether or not the fringes will move >>> during constant angular rotation...and of course they don't. >>> >>> We should only be considering what happens during angular ACCELERATION >>> !!!!!! >>> >>> That is when the two path lengths change. >>> That is when more 'wavelengths' fit into one path than the other. >>> That is when fringes move. >>> >>> Path lengths chaneg because each mirror accelerates slightly as light >>> from the previous one is in flight. Small second order effect, you say. >>> No way! It is the whole basis of operation. >>> >>> Actually, you have shown that the BaTh does what it should do. It >>> expects NO fringe shifts under constant rotation. >>> >>> BUT!!!! >>> The standard SR explanation says that there WILL BE a continuous fringe >>> shift during steady rotation. >>> >>> Sagnac proves SR to be wrong!!! >> >>So, you are saying that BaT predicts the fringes will shift during a- >>acceleration and return to original position when contant a-velocity is >>reached while SR predicts the fringes will move during acceleration and >>maintain a constant position when a constant velocity is reached? >> >>In otherwords BaT predicts return to original position upon ceasation of >>acceleration while SR predicts return to original position upon ceasation >>of rotation. >> >>If I understand the implications, it should be easy to tell the >>difference. >> >>Also, a light ring gyro should measure angular acceleration rather than >>angular position. > > Idiot. Learn the facts. > > > HW. Message rating: several casks. Androcles.
From: Black Knight on 13 Nov 2005 19:55 "Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message news:h0jfn198l1su1locnb854gdnmv124215dk(a)4ax.com... > On 12 Nov 2005 20:20:05 -0800, "Eric Gisse" <jowr.pi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>bz wrote: >> >>[snip] >> >>> >>> If I understand the implications, it should be easy to tell the >>> difference. >> >>You should have seen by now that Henri has zero interest in testing his >>theory. >> >>[snip] > > Idiot. Learn the facts. > > HW. Message rating: several casks. Androcles.
From: Black Knight on 13 Nov 2005 19:55 "Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message news:s0jfn1dcack8s1vr1pb8e98dp1qd0tuma4(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 08:58:01 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> > wrote: > >>"Eric Gisse" <jowr.pi(a)gmail.com> wrote in >>news:1131855605.794683.277520(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> >>> >>> bz wrote: >>> >>> [snip] >>> >>>> >>>> If I understand the implications, it should be easy to tell the >>>> difference. >>> >>> You should have seen by now that Henri has zero interest in testing his >>> theory. >>> >> >>Negative. > > Idiot. Learn the facts. > > HW. Message rating: several casks. Androcles.
From: Black Knight on 13 Nov 2005 19:55
"Henri Wilson" <HW@..> wrote in message news:31jfn1546p3ru42u224idk8pkur7l4ktf1(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:06:36 GMT, mmeron(a)cars3.uchicago.edu wrote: > >>In article <Xns970D1E95F2849WQAHBGMXSZHVspammote(a)130.39.198.139>, bz >><bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> writes: >>>"Eric Gisse" <jowr.pi(a)gmail.com> wrote in >>>news:1131855605.794683.277520(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>> >>>> >>>> bz wrote: >>>> >>>> [snip] >>>> >>>>> >>>>> If I understand the implications, it should be easy to tell the >>>>> difference. >>>> >>>> You should have seen by now that Henri has zero interest in testing his >>>> theory. >>>> >>> >>>Negative. >>> >>Imaginary. > > Idiot. Learn the facts. > >> >>Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, >>meron(a)cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same" > > > HW. Message rating: several casks. Androcles. |