Bootstrap ancestry
in [UK Mac]
|
From: Ian McCall on 19 Jun 2010 03:58 On 2010-06-18 22:44:27 +0100, real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) said: > You can do the same thing with computer technology; if it - but nothing > else - were all wiped out, where would we go from there? Multicore multighz Spectrums for all! The People's Computer(tm). Taking it all a bit more seriously, I wonder if von Neuman would necessarily have won out. It's almost ingrained now that 'this is how you design a computer', but von Neuman didn't think that. He thought 'this is how you design a computer practically and economically'. Competing designs existed, and for me it's interesting to see aspects of them come back - clockless for example. Far back in the mists of time I remember being taught about the Manchester Butterfly, something I curiously can find very little (actually, nothing at all) about on the web. It was a forerunner to all the multicore designs being used at the moment, but was abandoned because the interconnects between its nodes were not fast enough at the time to overcome the cost of signalling a task had been done. The conspiracy theory in me notes that the PS3's cell, itself semi-based on Blue Gene, lists a company called Butterfly amongst its credits and the PS3's/Blue Gene's designs are very Manchester Butterfly, at least as far as I remember it being described to me at University. We'd also have taken things like the Transputer a bit more seriously too. Cheers, Ian
From: Chris Ridd on 19 Jun 2010 04:10 On 2010-06-19 08:36:30 +0100, Pd said: > D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote: > >> This is a bit like something I puzzle over to myself sometimes. > > I play that game when I can't sleep at night. > >> Suppose that we lost all our technology, right down to our hammers and >> nails, and had to start again with stone hand-tools (but still had our >> knowledge, language, writing and so on). How long would it take to get >> back where we are now, in technological terms? > > Given that most of our technology was invented in the last 150 years, > and before that it was mostly knowledge and principles which were being > accumulated, I'd say less than a lifetime. Yes, in 20-30 years I reckon we'd have enough manufacturing capability to be roughly equivalent to where we are now. > >> Would we even take the same route? > > I think it's arguably certain we would not. What sort of blind alleys would we avoid? >> You can do the same thing with computer technology; if it - but nothing >> else - were all wiped out, where would we go from there? > > That's a conceivable possibility, with severe solar storms or a spasm of > EMPs. There aren't that many people around who are able to write computer boot code, eg BIOS or EFI type stuff. It is a pretty obscure art, so not being able to bootstrap computers would be a real possibility. -- Chris
From: D.M. Procida on 19 Jun 2010 04:58 Pd <peterd.news(a)gmail.invalid> wrote: > > Suppose that we lost all our technology, right down to our hammers and > > nails, and had to start again with stone hand-tools (but still had our > > knowledge, language, writing and so on). How long would it take to get > > back where we are now, in technological terms? > > Given that most of our technology was invented in the last 150 years, You're such a neo - neo - neo-something. Neo-ope. Neopia. You have neopia, and and can only focus properly on the new. It might be true that most technology was developed in the last couple of centuries, but before that lie many centuries of refinement of more basic technology. Never mind airliners and digital watches, what about something like a decent saw or adjustable spanner, and the ability to mass-produce them? We'd have to start with mining and metallurgy. Even making steel is something that was very difficult until the 19th century. I bet we'd have a good wait before the tools required to make a single good-quality steel saw had been made, and then even longer before we could make them readily. I watched Castaway a few weeks ago. In a few years Tom Hanks invented: basic dentistry a raft with spring-loaded sail coconut-shell-based water storage a spear OK, he was on his own, but he was a very long way from building food-processors or flat-pack furniture. Daniele
From: Pd on 19 Jun 2010 07:55 D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote: > Pd <peterd.news(a)gmail.invalid> wrote: > > > > Suppose that we lost all our technology, right down to our hammers and > > > nails, and had to start again with stone hand-tools (but still had our > > > knowledge, language, writing and so on). How long would it take to get > > > back where we are now, in technological terms? > > > > Given that most of our technology was invented in the last 150 years, > > You're such a neo - neo - neo-something. Neo-ope. Neopia. You have > neopia, and and can only focus properly on the new. > > It might be true that most technology was developed in the last couple > of centuries, but before that lie many centuries of refinement of more > basic technology. > > Never mind airliners and digital watches, what about something like a > decent saw or adjustable spanner, and the ability to mass-produce them? > > We'd have to start with mining and metallurgy. You have metalopia. The Maori didn't use metal, and seemed to be able to build houses, hunt, fish, construct ocean-going sailing ships and kill each other. > Even making steel is something that was very difficult > until the 19th century. Like I said, most technology was invented in the lat 150 years or so. > I bet we'd have a good wait before the tools required to make a single > good-quality steel saw had been made, and then even longer before we > could make them readily. Really? I think knowing the process for smelting iron, and what's required to make steel, we could have an industrial scale steel mill up and running within a decade, with a mere fraction of the horribly burnt and scarred flesh that the original process took to perfect. > I watched Castaway a few weeks ago. In a few years Tom Hanks invented: > > basic dentistry > a raft with spring-loaded sail > coconut-shell-based water storage > a spear > > OK, he was on his own, but he was a very long way from building > food-processors or flat-pack furniture. but he did recreate the single most important aspect of industry - society. (Slazenger, or whatever his name was.) -- Pd
From: Ben Shimmin on 19 Jun 2010 08:19
D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk>: [...] > This is a bit like something I puzzle over to myself sometimes. > > Suppose that we lost all our technology, right down to our hammers and > nails, and had to start again with stone hand-tools (but still had our > knowledge, language, writing and so on). How long would it take to get > back where we are now, in technological terms? Would we even take the > same route? If you haven't read Samuel Butler's _Erewhon_, I think you should, as you would very much enjoy it. b. -- <bas(a)bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/> `Zombies are defined by behavior and can be "explained" by many handy shortcuts: the supernatural, radiation, a virus, space visitors, secret weapons, a Harvard education and so on.' -- Roger Ebert |