Burn out 120V lamp on 120V circuit?
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From: PeterD on 11 Aug 2010 08:28 On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:10:30 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen" <paul(a)pstech-inc.com> wrote: > >"Don Klipstein" <don(a)manx.misty.com> wrote in message >news:slrni63jlf.b88.don(a)manx.misty.com... >> On 6/08/2010 4:03 AM, VWWall wrote in part: >> >>>>>> I haven't tried the experiment myself, since I don't have a suitable >>>>>> small motor available, and with 120V incandescent bulbs on the >>>>>> endangered species list, I don't care to sacrifice even one! >> >> The upcoming USA incandescent lamp ban scheduled to take effect in >> phases from 2012 to 2014 has a lot of exemptions. >> >> Exempted ones include tubular, flame shape, globe shape, rough service, >> reflector flood and spot, in general ones 25 watts or less, and ones >> producing more than 2600 lumens (nearly all incandescent lamps 200 watts >> or more and some 150 watt ones), and ones with a base other than "right >> hand" threaded E26 or E27 medium screw. >> >> I list these and other exemptions in: >> >> http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html > >That is very interesting (and a little disturbing). I did not realize that >an outright ban on incandescent lamps was set to be implemented here in the >US. Again a totally corrupt government has done it for us... The problem is that there are virtually no 'safe' CFLs (most are made in china with substandard components, and represent a fire hazard), and it is difficult to safely dispose of CFLs as you can't just throw them away. So now we're stuck with lamps that must be kept off if no one is nearby to watch them in case they fail, (so no 'keep to porch light on while you are out in the evening...'), the damage our economey, and do more damage to the environment than incandescent lamps do. Good move, guys, why don't you just ban all electric lights. Hell, I don't mind living in the dark, after all darkness and ignorance are hand-in-hand, and ignorance is what lets you hurt us.
From: Spehro Pefhany on 11 Aug 2010 09:59 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:28:36 -0400, PeterD <peter2(a)hipson.net> wrote: >On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:10:30 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen" ><paul(a)pstech-inc.com> wrote: > >> >>"Don Klipstein" <don(a)manx.misty.com> wrote in message >>news:slrni63jlf.b88.don(a)manx.misty.com... >>> On 6/08/2010 4:03 AM, VWWall wrote in part: >>> >>>>>>> I haven't tried the experiment myself, since I don't have a suitable >>>>>>> small motor available, and with 120V incandescent bulbs on the >>>>>>> endangered species list, I don't care to sacrifice even one! >>> >>> The upcoming USA incandescent lamp ban scheduled to take effect in >>> phases from 2012 to 2014 has a lot of exemptions. >>> >>> Exempted ones include tubular, flame shape, globe shape, rough service, >>> reflector flood and spot, in general ones 25 watts or less, and ones >>> producing more than 2600 lumens (nearly all incandescent lamps 200 watts >>> or more and some 150 watt ones), and ones with a base other than "right >>> hand" threaded E26 or E27 medium screw. >>> >>> I list these and other exemptions in: >>> >>> http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html >> >>That is very interesting (and a little disturbing). I did not realize that >>an outright ban on incandescent lamps was set to be implemented here in the >>US. > >Again a totally corrupt government has done it for us... The problem >is that there are virtually no 'safe' CFLs (most are made in china >with substandard components, and represent a fire hazard), Ever heard of UL/CSA standards and testing? That's why we can have virtually all electronics and much electrical stuff built offshore and far fewer problems occur than during the golden age of making electronics on-shore. The US has rather weak mandatory standards on safety, so the consumer must take some responsibility (and good stores will have some fear of being held legally responsible for problems). Is there even a single case of a properly used CFL causing a fire? There are many, many cases of incandescent bulbs causing fires. > and it is >difficult to safely dispose of CFLs as you can't just throw them away. I take mine along with the long fluorescent bulbs, car batteries and left-over paint to the free local household hazardous waste transfer station. Takes me about 15 minutes once or twice a year. The long flourescents (8' and 4') are the biggest hassle. A year's worth of CFLs for a _big_ house will fit in a small tupperware type container. >So now we're stuck with lamps that must be kept off if no one is >nearby to watch them in case they fail, (so no 'keep to porch light on >while you are out in the evening...'), the damage our economey, and do >more damage to the environment than incandescent lamps do. Or buy a decent brand, like GE or Philips, from a decent store rather than a flea market, dollar store, or the back of a truck. >Good move, guys, why don't you just ban all electric lights. Hell, I >don't mind living in the dark, after all darkness and ignorance are >hand-in-hand, and ignorance is what lets you hurt us. Wow.
From: Jim Thompson on 11 Aug 2010 18:56 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:22:27 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:41:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: > >> Something is wrong there??? The model (as I wrote it) handles neither >> end needs to be at ground. > >Terminal 2 grounded, no problem. Terminal 1 grounded, didn't work. > >Changing GR to reference node zero, rather than 2, allows grounding either >input. Also allows connecting several in series. I'll double check it, I haven't used it for about 10 years. What simulator are you using? LTspice? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Spice is like a sports car... Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel.
From: Jim Thompson on 11 Aug 2010 20:59 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:56:17 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:22:27 -0700, Fred Abse ><excretatauris(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:41:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: >> >>> Something is wrong there??? The model (as I wrote it) handles neither >>> end needs to be at ground. >> >>Terminal 2 grounded, no problem. Terminal 1 grounded, didn't work. >> >>Changing GR to reference node zero, rather than 2, allows grounding either >>input. Also allows connecting several in series. > >I'll double check it, I haven't used it for about 10 years. > >What simulator are you using? LTspice? > > ...Jim Thompson Fred, Looks like a bug in there. Should be totally symmetrical. I'll fix it and re-post. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Spice is like a sports car... Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel.
From: Jim Thompson on 12 Aug 2010 14:09
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:56:07 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:59:12 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: > >> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:56:17 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:22:27 -0700, Fred Abse >>><excretatauris(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:41:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Something is wrong there??? The model (as I wrote it) handles neither >>>>> end needs to be at ground. >>>> >>>>Terminal 2 grounded, no problem. Terminal 1 grounded, didn't work. >>>> >>>>Changing GR to reference node zero, rather than 2, allows grounding either >>>>input. Also allows connecting several in series. >>> >>>I'll double check it, I haven't used it for about 10 years. >>> >>>What simulator are you using? LTspice? >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> Fred, >> >> Looks like a bug in there. Should be totally symmetrical. I'll fix >> it and re-post. > >Yes, I'm using LTSpice. > >I actually drew an LTSpice schematic from the subcircuit to get an idea of >how it worked. Interestingly, although the generated netlist is (AFAICS), >identical to the subcircuit listing, LTSpice barfs, complaining about a >singular matrix, and needs some R (any old value) from node 2 to ground to >satisfy the solver. Just grounding node 2 doesn't work. Running the >original subcircuit *as a subcircuit*, just works, with the proviso I >mentioned about symmetry. I guess I might have found a "feature" in >the way LTSpice parses schematic input as against subcircuits. Either >that, or I can't see the wood for the trees. > >I like the way you did the model. I'm looking at ways of incorporating the >polynomial for R versus T, that the Intusoft model uses. AIUI, that's >curve fitted from actual lab measurements on tungsten wire. > >The Intusoft model (see an earlier post) derives its tau from the rated >power of the lamp. I don't trust that. A former employee of mine, at GenRad, John Spellman, took the data, and together we did the subcircuit. We used it on an old WWII aircraft re-furb project of his about 10 years ago. When I get a free moment :-) I'll reconstruct it. It appears there's some asymmetry relative to ground, which I'll fix, then re-post. (Polynomials are a PITA. Maybe it could be done with a TABLE?) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Spice is like a sports car... Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel. |